Carenado Turbo Commander Mod v6.0

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Posted (edited)

Hi Bill, 

I was so frustrated I could not use your new update using FSx SE¬†that I¬†upgraded my sim to Prepared v4. ūüėä

After two days and ten attempts I finally get it downloaded thanks to my crappy connection. Eventually everything is working.

And I must say you have done an amazing job hereūüė≤. I did only two short test flights so far, and thus had not enough time to go in deep of everything.

But as you asked for feedback, here we go. 

I will try to follow some phase of flight logic, starting from cold and dark. Some of my remarks will concern Carenado misinterpretation, not your mods

-Oxygen valve do not need battery to be operational. It is just a pressure regulator. If the oxy bottle in the back of the plane is open and there is O2 in it, you will have pressure as soon as you turn the knob ( the more you open it, the more pressure you get

-Cabin altitude cannot be adjusted on ground anymore, even with autopressurization option turned off.

-PAR/SER switch is actually a 2 position switch not 3. Ground power is online when connected with the switch in the PAR position.

-Annunciator panel test: NTS lights are not part of the test and should not be lit when performing the test. On the other hand, the gear horn will sound If the test is performed on ground.

-door opens even with door lock on.

-landing lights extension switch is a 3 position switch, -retract-off-extend, not two as Carenado did. Also the panel screw on the top right of the switch cluster is actually a blue light, not a screw. The light is lit when landing lights are not retracted.

-NTS switch info tooltip is inverted (left for right). Talking about NTS, I saw you eventually succeeded in separating the light status from the switch position. That’s great. But now why not implement the NTS test as it is IRL and not have it like a kind of automatic  as you have implemented now.?  In real life, you have to push and maintain the switch to test NTS (springloaded switch). In the sim it is not possible to maintain the switch in position during whole startup process, but it could be nice to choose to perform the test or not and have it linked to the switch position. Also, above 50%rpm, whether the NTS switch position, the NTS lights should be Off. (Works only in flight for now.)

-Nice work on the hydraulic gauge, igniter sound, and electrical system and Ammeters. Just amp is decreasing a bit too fast after engine start for what I know, but I would let like this, as many simmers may not have the patience...

-EGT still rising to fast on startup.

-Ac volt warning light seems to be linked to INV AND Radio 1 switches. As far as I know, Ac distribution should not be concerned by radio 1 switch.

-Amazing work on propeller locks. ūüĎć. Now you can perform the over speed regulator check. Just one thing, when props are in the locks, there should be virtually no trust, thus almost no¬†torque, even with PL ¬†and condition levers full forward. For now, torque meters show up to 700 hp.

-RH igniter light doesn’t work in override position, and the LH goes off after take off. These lights should stay on as long as override is selected.

-Anti ice prop/gen switch is spring loaded to ¬ę prop ¬Ľ position.

-AP106. Not much time to test. Here are my first observations.

There  is two arrows on the Ap panel, on the right of the Engage- disengage switch. In the real Ap, these arrows are backlighted in a yellowish white, and once Ap is engaged, the upper one turns green. This is the only cue the Ap is engaged.

-IAS mode seems to be struggling more than before. Ap Pitch wheel working in the wrong direction in IAS mode, although correct in pitch mode.

-Removing all FD modes should hide the FD v shape in the attitude indicator. Carenado crappy trick doesn’t work anymore (twice on go around), and I couldn’t find a way to remove FD indicator.

-Yes, there is a prop braking effect with Tp 331. But the one you implemented is a way¬†too much. This is not a Turbo Porter.ūüėā The braking action depends much about Rpm, witch is not the case for now. In short final, you will have to add power to keep speed when increasing rpm to 100%.¬†

To answer a question regarding low power settings and NTS operation. When power levers are at idle position, it will prevent the NTS to engage. This is why, when you loose an engine in flight, you cannot retard the PL until you have the prop feathered otherwise NTS will not kick in.

-The gear horn cannot be silenced. The switch is not working.

-When activating an emergency engine cutoff switch on ground, the startup sound is audible until the engine switch is turned off.

So this is what I ve found so far. There is probably some stuff you won‚Äôt be able to fix, but you‚Äôve done so many¬†miracles so far that I start¬†to believe that nothing is impossibleūüėČ.

Thank you for turning this usual Carenado fast-food stuff into a real airplane. 







Edited by Olivier_Moens
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And of course, amongst other Carenado shortcuts and approximations, the flaps lever is not working like the real one. The flaps motion is continuous, upwards when lever is up, downwards when lever down, and no moves with the lever in the middle position. The lever holds the assigned position, but has to be centered to stop the flaps motion to the desired position.

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Thank you very much for the feedback.  I will attempt to address some of the items here.

1. The oxygen thing is purely Carenado.  But, it is an easy fix.  I probably will not be able to regulate the pressure (it will be on-off like it is now), but I can certainly take the battery out of the logic.

2. The pressurization fix is an errant parenthesis in my code.  Easy fix.  I have already fixed that in the update in work.

3. The POH is horrible in describing the GROUND POWER switch, hence Carenado making it 3 position and my leaving it that way.  It should be an easy fix for the switch itself.  The effect on the electrical system logic may not be so easy.

4. Removal of NTS from Annunciator logic....easy.  Adding the gear horn.....easy.

5. The door lock thing was unchanged from the original Carenado programming.  Should be an easy fix but will merit some research.  I don't know it the standard exit logic inherent in P3D can be overriden.

6. Landing lights switch correction will take some doing, but likely doable.  The screw that should be a light is likely not doable.

7. NTS logic will have to be pretty much redone.  However, I think I don't have the proper understanding of the logic.  In the YouTube Tim Timmons video, it seems the NTS lights come on during start without his holding the switch.  I think I am missing something. 

8. The charging rate can very easily be adjusted.  Like you, I think most simmers aren't into waiting too long. 

9. I can change the EGT rate on startup but I need a good idea of what that rate should be.  Maybe I'll look at the Timmons video again.

10. Looking at the electrical schematic, it appears to me that Inverter #1 is powered from the Radio #1 switch and Inverter #2 is powered from the Radio #2 switch.  Maybe I have read it wrong.

11. The intention was to not allow torque if the start locks are active.  I'm pretty sure it was that way in the previous version.  I will have to check to see what I messed up in v6.

12. I will check the igniter lights.

13. Didn't know the PROP/GEN was spring loaded.  That is sometimes tricky in the simulator but I'll have a look at it.

14. The autopilot arrows were not modeled by Carenado.  I will take a look but am not very hopeful on the VC control head.  The pop-up shouldn't be a problem.

15. There were some autopilot updates in version 6.1 that should have corrected the V-Bar logic.  I will PM you a link to v6.1.

16. The prop braking adjustment is simple beyond belief if you know how to edit the .air file.  Simply change the spoiler drag to a smaller number.  If you can try this and give me a good number that would be great.  I suspected that the current number was too high.

17.  I have already fixed the gear horn logic in the update in work.

18.  I have not yet found an effective way of overriding the start sound on a emergency cutoff.  The feather logic is entwined with both the fuel switch and the condition lever and gets complicated.  I'll take another look at it.

19. The RW flap implementation can be a real problem for simmers.  It requires virtually staring at the flap lever during transitions unlike the real airplane where one can feel for the lever and glance at the gauge when the desired setting is reached.  To me it's the biggest disappointment in the airplane.  I can't fathom why Aero/Rockwell/Gulfstream didn't implement pre-selectable flaps like every other manufacturer on the planet.  The last airplane I flew that didn't have pre-selectable flaps was a 1955 Cessna 310 and even then the switch was spring loaded to center.  I can fix it to emulate the RW, but I don't think folks would like it very much.  While it would technically be RW, it would also take an inordinate amount of mission crosscheck time to operate in a simulator environment where tactile feel and the ability to quickly glance at something that is not normally included on the screen would not be available. 

Again, thank you sincerely for the feedback.  I am in the middle of rebuilding my back deck and renovating the master bathroom.  Therefore, there won't be much action on simulator stuff for a while.  I will nibble away at it when I can, but no one should hold their breath.

Best regards,


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Posted (edited)

Hi Bil thanks for the reply.

point 1 to 6 check

point 7. 

NTS logic is pretty good like you did, only that you have to depress and maintain the appropriate switch down until the test is completed, around 50% rpm. If you look at Tim Simmons video, you will see that he is keeping is left thumb on the switch.  Also Tim didn’t perform the pre run NTS test by bringing throttle and condition lever beyond the gate.

I confirm that if you do not depress the corresponding NTS switch, no NTS light will ever light.

Having to keep a switch depressed all the way is not practical in a sim, so why not latch the switch until test is done, and release it automatically when light goes off at approx 50%? (I don’t know about programming, just throwing ideas around)

Once engine above  50%, the NTS light should not come on again, even with test switch depressed.

9. I would say that a steady rising rate for around eight seconds would make it.

10. You are perfectly right. Earlier model had the inverter linked directly to main bus. But then,  INV 1 should be linked to radio bus 1 (which it is) and INV 2 linked to Radio bus 2 which is not. Also inverters should be powered with batteries only, because main bus and radio buses are.

11, 12 check.

13 not a big deal.

14 Arrows on pop up are fine to me, I understand you cannot change anything about the VC.

15. Thanks for it. I will give it a try and keep you informed. Allow me a week, I am rather busy too for now.

16. I will check also and try to find you something that seem realistic to me. Any chance to get RPM having an influence on the prop drag?

17. Nice . Just remember that.if flaps are not up, the horn cannot be silenced.

18 no big deal either.

19. You are probably right. Personally I am using a 3 pos flaps: up, half and full down. Regarding the real life stuff the reason behind is the simplicity and the lower cost. This is only a two way hydraulic valve. No delicate engineering. Simple and sturdy, less maintenance and a little bit more workload for the crew;-).

best regards.

Edited by Olivier_Moens
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Posted (edited)


Re. the start indications, check this video.

Looks like a pretty cool start, probably a cold day (note the ludicrous climb rate later on)...definitely a sticky needle on the EGT gauge.  Best video I could find.  Ignore the title bar that says "TPE331-5K" because it's obviously a -10 airplane.

There's this video, too, but it only shows the second half of the start.

Full start sequence with a -5 bird.

Edited by C525B

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RE: Point #9

I also find that I get very high EGT on start up even on only moderately warmer days.  I routinely see temps over the starting limit with an OAT of 30C/80F or slightly less.  I've been flying around the Caribbean and I'm wondering when I'm going to get my first hot start.  In cooler temps I was getting more reasonable EGT temps. An idea for more realism would be to take into account relative wind e.g. headwind=cooler start and tail wind=hotter start.

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59 minutes ago, Eyaen said:

RE: Point #9

I also find that I get very high EGT on start up even on only moderately warmer days.  I routinely see temps over the starting limit with an OAT of 30C/80F or slightly less.  I've been flying around the Caribbean and I'm wondering when I'm going to get my first hot start.  In cooler temps I was getting more reasonable EGT temps. An idea for more realism would be to take into account relative wind e.g. headwind=cooler start and tail wind=hotter start.

I will revisit the entire starting temp issue.  The RW temps seem to be much lower than I programmed for.  The headwind/tailwind thing shouldn't be a problem. 

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8 hours ago, whamil77 said:

The headwind/tailwind thing shouldn't be a problem. 

That would be really neat! I don't know of any other sim aircraft that takes this into consideration.  I wish I had some data to give you to help but all I have to go on is my experience on the ramp and when aircraft would need to be positioned into the wind.  It would probably take about a 10kt tailwind before we'd start running into that issue.

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Yes, would be nice. I believe Dodosim took headwind / tailwind components into account when they did the Bell 206.

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