21 minutes ago, Pete Dowson said:

Saw this post later.

That's not good then. You'll need to stick to BGLs only if you want to use that. You won't be using AI Traffic Controller either, then. Note that is able to give you information on selected flights.

Pete

I am using AITC in a very limited way as I’ve selected a few AIGFP files to see how it works. But how do you use it to display the same info as AI Companion does? Can it show me routes and departure times for a selected airline?

Unless I can see an AIGFP generated aircraft pushback at its departure time, taxi, takeoff and fly a SID how can I check it’s working as intended?

Regarding injected Ai, yes, Radar Contact does see them and can interact. It’s a whole new way of using AIG routes and aircraft which is going to take some learning after using BGLs / AiCompanion.

Haven't used STB in years.

6 hours ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

@Kaiii3, this sounds like the death knell for BGLs. That would be a pity for some of us since we would no longer be able to view live traffic using programs such as Ai Companion. I fear that koala - the AiCompanion author - would not be able to write a similar program to analyse AIGFP files. How it would cope with Ai injected into flight sim is unknown.

At some point it will be, BGL based traffic has for to many limitations and it seems MSFS is still using it.......... AIGFP allows us to be way more flexible regarding this. The Code to read AIGFP files is public in our Forum and can be used by any third party developer.

@kevinfirth see above, regarding your question 😉

I have been in contact with koala (developer of AIC) about AIGFP and how he can implement it, but he was not sure if there is actual a big need for it. So if you guys feel the nedd for it, I guess it would be helpfull to ask over at his AIG Forum Topic for AIGFP support^^.

@Ray Proudfoot AIGTC has currently no "schedule" implemented, but I am planing to migrate the "Live Timetable" from AIM over to AIGTC at some point later in the public betaphase. Btw: SIDs are not yet implemented in AIGTC - but I am working on something that could change this, including some other major stuff.

 

I have to agree with Ray. Although I think that AIG Manager is a groundbreaking app. I have no interest in switching from BGL schedules. Other than for rotorcraft, whether aircraft fly direct from one airport to the next or not is hardly noticeable from the user's viewpoint. In addition, once one relies on the AIGFP app to manage enroute AI traffic, any connection to ATC and external apps is lost. There's a reason that Asobo stuck with BGL flightplans. Standardization means something in the flightsim world. Create your own formats at your own risk.

 

24 minutes ago, Kaiii3 said:

see above, regarding your question 😉

Superb, thanks 🙂

5 minutes ago, jabloomf1230 said:

I have to agree with Ray. Although I think that AIG Manager is a groundbreaking app. I have no interest in switching from BGL schedules. Other than for rotorcraft, whether aircraft fly direct from one airport to the next or not is hardly noticeable from the user's viewpoint. In addition, once one relies on the AIGFP app to manage enroute AI traffic, any connection to ATC and external apps is lost. There's a reason that Asobo stuck with BGL flightplans. Standardization means something in the flightsim world. Create your own formats at your own risk.

 

thats the reason we allow users to decide to stick to BGL based traffic or use AIGFP. We created AIGFP primarily for aircraft operations A->A and realisitc helicopter FDEs that can not be handled in BGL based files. All flightplans that can not be "handled" by BGL are flaged and AIM will inform the user (if AIGFP has been disabled) that this flightplan is AIGFP exlusive. Then it is up to the user to skip it or install it as AIGFP.

52 minutes ago, Kaiii3 said:

At some point it will be, BGL based traffic has for to many limitations and it seems MSFS is still using it.......... AIGFP allows us to be way more flexible regarding this. The Code to read AIGFP files is public in our Forum and can be used by any third party developer.

@kevinfirth see above, regarding your question 😉

I have been in contact with koala (developer of AIC) about AIGFP and how he can implement it, but he was not sure if there is actual a big need for it. So if you guys feel the nedd for it, I guess it would be helpfull to ask over at his AIG Forum Topic for AIGFP support^^.

@Ray Proudfoot AIGTC has currently no "schedule" implemented, but I am planing to migrate the "Live Timetable" from AIM over to AIGTC at some point later in the public betaphase. Btw: SIDs are not yet implemented in AIGTC - but I am working on something that could change this, including some other major stuff.

 

Maybe if MSFS is still sticking to BGLs it's not such a bad system after all.

Whilst AIGFP may be more flexible to the developers how does the end user benefit? Am I really going to notice aircraft departing to join an airway rather than a GC route? I don't wish to pour cold water on this project because AIG and its aircraft have transformed my enjoyment of visiting many different airports around the world.

But to compliment those injected aircraft it's helpful to see a departure / arrival board of aircraft movements for a chosen airport. Ai_Companion delivers that and far far more.

Can we expect to see an equivalent program for AIGFP injected routes? Is it in your plans? I looked at the Resources and Tools subforum but could see no discussion of AIC and AIGFP.

Finally, are these flights injected into P3D in 'sleep' mode changing soon after to a Pre-Start condition before Clearance, Taxi Out, TakeOff1, TakeOff2 and enroute? Does it follow the same principles as with BGLs? I guess so as it's dictated by the SDK.

There's always a possible drawback of adding one more EXE file running in parallel with the sim and then either causing a CTD or experiencing performance issues. For example, I was using REX WeatherForce with MSFS, but as the MSFS live weather option has gotten better (cough, cough, okay a little better) I stopped using REX WF. Why take a chance and run an add-on unless it provides a major benefit?

I guess they were just lazy reagrding offline AI in MSFS - but thats my own opinion^^

The befenfit for the users is actualdepending on the user itself. If you can live with the fact that all aircrafts fling greatcircle, you are fine with BGL, but at some regions you can actual see the difference between routed traffic and GC-based traffic. Since we are still in the early stage of routed commercial AI the current impact is more or less not visible (I guess we only have 3 or 4 airlines flying route-based flights at the moment). The major benefit at the moment are the A->A operations for special flights like patrolflights, testflights or sightseeing.

Creating routebased-traffic is currently only possible by adding all waypoints by hand (way to time consuming for UAL or AAL^^), but we are working on an automated process for that at the moment. This might later allow us to actual implement "no flyzones" for special airlines. The Qater-Operations over the last years are a perfect exmaple for that (bad fur us, luckely for them) these restirction are no longer active. But for example with the new format we can make sure no South Korean Airliner will fly over North Korea.

I can not comment of AIC and what koala is planing, I have not talked to him for some time now, best ask himself here: https://www.alpha-india.net/forums/index.php?topic=29651.0 I am sure he will respond to any request regarding AIGFP like he does with any other request.

AIGFP injects traffic the same time as BGL based traffic would do. It actual uses the same method (Traffic Sectors) to determin if an Aircraft is currently in an active Sector or not. Each Aircraft that should be in the active sectors (9 in total) will be injected. So you will see injected traffic inflight and onground. Aircrafts in "sleep" will be enabled between one and five minutes before STD to revice any preflight support and clearance. After that they will start the flight.

 

@Kaiii3, thanks very much for explaining the AIGFP process. Clearly it's still in its infancy and will be some time before the major airlines routes are converted. Once these start to happen might be an appropriate time to discuss things with koala and what is possible for him assuming he has an interest in developing a suitable executable.

koala made a post over at AIG in his topic regarding AIGFP and AIC 😉

20 hours ago, jabloomf1230 said:

I have to agree with Ray. Although I think that AIG Manager is a groundbreaking app. I have no interest in switching from BGL schedules. Other than for rotorcraft, whether aircraft fly direct from one airport to the next or not is hardly noticeable from the user's viewpoint. In addition, once one relies on the AIGFP app to manage enroute AI traffic, any connection to ATC and external apps is lost. There's a reason that Asobo stuck with BGL flightplans. Standardization means something in the flightsim world. Create your own formats at your own risk.

 

Actually, PF3 ATC works fine with AIGFP.  In fact all of my add-ons seem to recognize AIGFP without issue.  Just watching AI drop their flaps as they leave the gate and begin taxi out adds immensely to the immersion.  Kai and the team are trying to do something to move functionality forward here.  To hold that back b/c 1 or 2 apps wont work with the new format is silly.  Having Waypoints in a FP is great when you see company traffic all following the same waypoints.  Following another transatlantic company aircraft on a route and hearing them via ATC the whole way is great.   I haven't seen any heli flights yet but haven't seen a helicopter as AI since FS9!   Flying out of NYC having the heli traffic will be incredible.  

Just because Asobo stuck with BGL's means nothing and if you don't want to use AIGFP that's fine but some of us are very excited they are using a new format to bring new functionality to the sim.  Are you going to tell PMDG, REX, HiFi, Pete D and all the other developers who have worked "around" the P3D code limitations they should have just stuck to "standards?"   We'd all still be flying default AC with default wxr...   

They aren't just changing for the sake of change, pretty sure they wouldn't create all this extra work for themselves if they didn't see a compelling reason. You have the option to stay with .bgl and if that's no good there are other AI programs out there. 

  

18 hours ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

@Kaiii3, thanks very much for explaining the AIGFP process. Clearly it's still in its infancy and will be some time before the major airlines routes are converted. Once these start to happen might be an appropriate time to discuss things with koala and what is possible for him assuming he has an interest in developing a suitable executable.

It's already happening.  I've got a few of my "majors" converted to AIGFP.  There aren't "a lot" of them available but it's happening... 

Edited January 17, 20215 yr by psolk

7 minutes ago, psolk said:

Just because Asobo stuck with BGL's means nothing and if you don't want to use AIGFP that's fine but some of us are very excited they are using a new format to bring new functionality to the sim.  Are you going to tell PMDG, REX, HiFi, Pete D and all the other developers who have worked "around" the P3D code limitations they should have just stuck to "standards?"   We'd all still be flying default AC with default wxr...   

They aren't just changing for the sake of change, pretty sure they wouldn't create all this extra work for themselves if they didn't see a compelling reason. You have the option to stay with .bgl and if that's no good there are other AI programs out there. 

THIS

29 minutes ago, psolk said:

 I haven't seen any heli flights yet but haven't seen a helicopter as AI since FS9!   Flying out of NYC having the heli traffic will be incredible. 

We are having currently only one helicopter FP ready (East Anglian Air Ambulance). It can be installed when Forum-Flightplans are enabled as online source in the AIM Update Settings. Bases ar Cambridge and Norwich. We will release Atlantic Airways Helicopters (Faroe Islands) and Wiking Helikopter (Germany) as soon as the paints are ready.

36 minutes ago, psolk said:

It's already happening.  I've got a few of my "majors" converted to AIGFP.  There aren't "a lot" of them available but it's happening... 

I've noticed but no major airlines that I can see. And after 'koala's' post this morning about the difficulty of reworking Ai Companion to read AIGFP files I'll be staying with BGLs for as long as possible.

2 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

I've noticed but no major airlines that I can see. And after 'koala's' post this morning about the difficulty of reworking Ai Companion to read AIGFP files I'll be staying with BGLs for as long as possible.

It's actually my largest complaint with AIGFP thus far.  There is no accurate way to identify new AIGFP plans and they don't show up in available updates.  So it was basically a roll of the dice choosing a few majors, UAL, BA, Delta, AA, JetBlue, RyanAir, and others, uninstalling the Airline in AIGAIM then re-installing them and Voici, they pop up as AIGFP.  But in AIG they showed "FALSE" under AIGFP prior to uninstall/install.  

So to your point, still in it's infancy and needs some work.