1 hour ago, Paraffin said:

Laminar might not be giving me everything I want right now like better weather, but I like the forward momentum they're showing

We could literally use this exact same quote for every single version in the last 7-10 years honestly. 

I like the optimism, but I have been following them too long to get excited literally until I see it. Fingers crossed. 

Edited June 19, 20196 yr by irrics

1 hour ago, Bert Pieke said:

That is not correct.. MS licensed their ESP code to Lockheed.. so your conclusion is not based on fact.. 

If the base of FS2020 will be an "updated" version of FSX code (+airports), with the new scenery being taped on and who knows what kind of weather (clearly artist renderings in the trailer), the product could potentially become incredibly uninteresting for anyone using X-Plane, even 11.

25 minutes ago, Colonel X said:

clearly artist renderings in the trailer

What do you mean by that?

On 6/19/2019 at 3:24 PM, Bert Pieke said:

That is not correct.. MS licensed their ESP code to Lockheed.. so your conclusion is not based on fact.. 

Well okay then.

On 6/19/2019 at 4:57 PM, Colonel X said:

If the base of FS2020 will be an "updated" version of FSX code (+airports), with the new scenery being taped on and who knows what kind of weather (clearly artist renderings in the trailer), the product could potentially become incredibly uninteresting for anyone using X-Plane, even 11.

And for me, the bolded part is entirely based on fact. The only thing that will make me even consider a new MSFS is all new code.

After flying MS since its inception, few years ago, Microsoft came out with a subscription simulator called "Fligiht".  It had only part of Hawaii as it's scenery package and offered other scenery areas and aircraft that you could buy.  Finally, it offered Alaska and shortly thereafter, when you bought a new aircraft, it was only the exterior - no cockpit view.  It also turned into more of a game than a simulator. They soon dropped it completely and when I asked for a copy of what I had bought, I got a note which essentially said "tough".  It was very limited, but offered great graphics and control and I really was disappointed with its demise.  I am therefore leery of any new MS subscription program.  X-Plane has brought back my simulator experience.

John

On 6/13/2019 at 12:19 PM, Colonel X said:

All it takes is Austin realising he's not Howard Hughes and to pour his money over X-Plane instead of some crazy side project.

Austin: Who is Howard Hughes? 😂

If MSFS 2020 comes out as their trailer with an open SDK, LM has to be worried...

13 minutes ago, pao said:

If MSFS 2020 comes out as their trailer with an open SDK, LM has to be worried...

I don't think that LM will be too worried and I'm not even sure that LR would be very worried as they always seemed to operate on their own (his own?) whim and not the concerns of either the consumer or the competition. 

5 minutes ago, ricka47 said:

I don't think that LM will be too worried and I'm not even sure that LR would be very worried as they always seemed to operate on their own (his own?) whim and not the concerns of either the consumer or the competition. 

What I mean is that LM was on a trend to capture a huge number of flight simmers and to become eventually the number 1 platform years after being behind MS and then P3D.....    but if Microsoft release a 2020 sim product which brings it all, then the cards will be reshuffled...

8 minutes ago, pao said:

What I mean is that LM was on a trend to capture a huge number of flight simmers and to become eventually the number 1 platform years after being behind MS and then P3D.....    but if Microsoft release a 2020 sim product which brings it all, then the cards will be reshuffled...

You mean LR (Laminar Research) and not LM (Lockheed Martin), right?  LM doesn't produce a sim for entertainment purposes and they have bigger fish to fry than us simmers.  LR may indeed go back to being a niche player in the market if MSFS lives up to the hopes that many of us have for it.

I'm exclusively an XP11 user now and really like it despite missing many things that we had even in FSX.  But, P3D/FSX and XP11 may (we don't know for sure) soon be 20th century technology facing a 21st century sim - maybe.

11 minutes ago, ricka47 said:

You mean LR (Laminar Research) and not LM (Lockheed Martin), right?  LM doesn't produce a sim for entertainment purposes and they have bigger fish to fry than us simmers.  LR may indeed go back to being a niche player in the market if MSFS lives up to the hopes that many of us have for it.

I'm exclusively an XP11 user now and really like it despite missing many things that we had even in FSX.  But, P3D/FSX and XP11 may (we don't know for sure) soon be 20th century technology facing a 21st century sim - maybe.

Sorry yes I meant Laminar Research.

By the time FS2020 will be released, XP11 will be the #1 platform. That's a good place to start this new competition for LR.

Just now, Colonel X said:

By the time FS2020 will be released, XP11 will be the #1 platform. That's a good place to start this new competition for LR.

I hope that is the case.  Vulkan should be here by then and that will help.  But, will LR be able to face the challenges of what we're speculating may be in MSFS2020?

From what I hear from Austin, he's somewhat dismissing the possible effect of the new sim and maybe he's right to do so.   Maybe it won't be the game-changer that is expected.  But, as much as I like XP11, we still don't have seasons and other basics that more than likely will be in the new sim. 

Loyalty to a product/company in the flight sim game only goes so far and I'm more than willing to chase that shiny new object if it delivers what I want.

 

49 minutes ago, ricka47 said:

You mean LR (Laminar Research) and not LM (Lockheed Martin), right?  LM doesn't produce a sim for entertainment purposes and they have bigger fish to fry than us simmers.  LR may indeed go back to being a niche player in the market if MSFS lives up to the hopes that many of us have for it.

I'm exclusively an XP11 user now and really like it despite missing many things that we had even in FSX.  But, P3D/FSX and XP11 may (we don't know for sure) soon be 20th century technology facing a 21st century sim - maybe.

That description of 20th century technology is maybe a better fit for P3D than XP11. LM did manage to move the ESP code they're licensing into 64 bits, and there have been a few other improvements. But it still feels and looks like a legacy FSX flight sim, cobbled together with many addons needed to bring it up to a working level for many who use it.

The change from XP10 to XP11 was a big one, and it feels and looks like a more integrated, updated project. There are very few legacy issues remaining (like ground handling), and we're mainly complaining about new things we want added like better weather and seasons, not so much the baseline simulation. Laminar is still pushing forward with things like the change from OpenGL to Vulkan/Metal, and it's making much more use of high amounts of user RAM compared to P3D. Its a modern sim, constantly updated and improved.

And speaking of 21st Century sims, one thing we don't know yet is whether the new MSFS is a brand new flight sim built from scratch, or if it's basically an improved version of what they used in MS Flight. That may or may not make a difference, depending on how it's implemented.

I predict howls of protest in the MSFS forum here on Avsim if it isn't a brand new sim built from scratch. 😉 

Lots of assumptions are being made about how a brand new sim would be faster, better, smoother than anything we have now. On the other hand, if MS can fix some of the weakness in the legacy code they already own, it would be the quickest way to get a flight sim up and running as a showcase for their new approach to scenery generation. 

 

22 minutes ago, ricka47 said:

I hope that is the case.  Vulkan should be here by then and that will help.  But, will LR be able to face the challenges of what we're speculating may be in MSFS2020?

Two points about that. First, both P3D and XP11 aren't going to be abandoned right away, because they both have a large built-out fleet of aircraft that the new MSFS can't possibly match right away. People aren't going to give up their favorite aircraft models. Or at least I know I won't; I'm picky about what I like to fly. That allows plenty of time for a "response" from LM and LR if either company actually cares about the competition (and I have doubts about that).

And second, the timing of the new MSFS release in late 2020 might coincide with the release of XP12, if Laminar stays roughly on the 4 year release schedule between major versions. If that's the case, then whatever the merits of the new sim, it will be compared with the next version of X-Plane and not the one we're flying now.