New MS Flight Sim shown at E3

[irrics 1,517]

38 minutes ago, Rob_Ainscough said:

Flight Simulation is a niche market regardless of technology used, the controlled DLC approach has been used before, twice (MS Flight and DTG FSW), it wasn’t cheap then and no reason it’ll be cheap now ... in both cases that approach failed.

Flight didn’t fail due to the DLC situation.  The whole Flight thing should honestly be disregarded.

This is a different company these days.

Edited June 14, 2019 by irrics

[irrics 1,517]

39 minutes ago, Rob_Ainscough said:

MS isn’t the only company that could stream data like this into a Simulator.

True - but they aren't in the FS business (google) in the same way.

Google streaming of data is a great showcase of how wonderful this technology could be compared to the old methods of fully installing it and keeping it up-to-date.

 

Edited June 14, 2019 by irrics

[irrics 1,517]

40 minutes ago, Rob_Ainscough said:

If no SDK is true or is for in-house only, then I’m sure they will sell some units, but not anything that would make it financially viable for the long haul.  Microsoft would have far higher revenue targets than current set of add-on developers.  If those aren’t met within a certain time frame, they will stop, just as they did 13 years ago.

I don't know Rob - that's all just wild speculation like the rest of us..

It’s literally impossible to know what Microsoft revenue targets might be for something like this. Obviously this is not new territory for them so it’s hard to believe they would want to get back in without a really good plan for how they were going to do it. 

 It seems presumptuous to say that it’s not financially viable for the long-haul if they don’t do it a certain way.   MS seems to be doing really good at making money these days to me.

Edited June 14, 2019 by irrics
Softening a bit

[Alan_A 1,650]

2 hours ago, Rob_Ainscough said:

From Robert at PMDG via FSElite

”Randazzo, along with other developers has made comments in reference to Microsoft’s decision to develop add-ons themselves rather than allowing third-party developers access to their platform”

If this is accurate then it’s a dead-end product before release IMHO.  Microsoft can’t possibly keep up with the pace of add-ons we have for P3D/XP, not to mention the many extremely high quality aircraft from PMDG, FSLabs, Leonardo, MJC, Aerosoft, and several others.

I’m hoping it’s not accurate.

Cheers, Rob

Unless Randazzo was interviewed by FS Elite, or made some statement other than the one on the PMDG forums (which he typically doesn't do - he's almost never interviewed, and speaks only through his forum posts), then this seems to be a poorly written synopsis of what he actually did say.

The two relevant statements from his PMDG forum post:
 

Quote

PMDG is taking a "wait and see" approach toward Microsoft Flight Simulator 2020. We simply do not have sufficient information to allow a smart business decision to be made with regard to future support and planning for this new title. As of this moment, nobody in our part of the marketplace is even aware if the title will allow for after-market development, how those products will be sold or what restrictions might be in place that are beneficial or not to developers. 

Until these areas are clarified by Microsoft, we simply won't be able to evaluate positively or negatively and thus we will refrain from making any decisions at this time.

Emphasis mine.

And the second statement:
 

Quote

I will not be surprised to see this title marketed more toward the game community based upon my historic conversations with Microsoft as they tried to find ways to expand their customer base. I will also not be surprised to find that Microsoft has it's eyes set firmly on raiding the space in which many of your favorite expansions exist: Aircraft, scenery, airports and apps. They are not entering this business sector out of altruism, they are here for profit margins, and the market history in the past has shown again and again that those margins exist in the relationship between the after-market developers and the end user.

If that marketplace is constructed similarly to the effort with Flight or Dovetail- then it is a horrible thing indeed for customers in the long term. 

So... short version... he's speculating about how Microsoft might construct its Flight Simulator marketplace... and he's saying that if they construct it along similar lines to Flight and Dovetail FS - with a closed market where the game publisher takes a big cut - then he thinks that's a bad thing for consumers and for flight simulation in general.

He's not saying anything about a "Microsoft decision."  He explicitly says that he doesn't know whether they've made a decision or what it might be.

Speaking as a writer and editor - which is what I am - I'd have to say that FS Elite botched their report.

[shivers9 1,174]

1 minute ago, irrics said:

No offense, but literally all of that is speculative and hypothetical especially in light of how little is known of their intentions here. 

No offense but you have been speculating for 4 straight days now. Do you ever listen to anyone talk other than yourself? I guess the Mods must have died or something.

[CarlHill 79]

I'm anxiously awaiting Rachel Maddow to confirm that MS has a new Flight Simulator.  Until then, this is all speculation.

[CarlHill 79]

And conjecture

 

[irrics 1,517]

27 minutes ago, shivers9 said:

No offense but you have been speculating for 4 straight days now. Do you ever listen to anyone talk other than yourself? I guess the Mods must have died or something.

Let's not do this please..

We already had one our exchanges moderated away - nobody wants to see you and I argue.

Edited June 14, 2019 by irrics

[eslader 1,783]

 

3 hours ago, ganter said:

And another thing; I've been simming for years now - can be measured in decades.

A little piece of me dies every time I have to pay out for a piece of scenery or a "study-level" aircraft.

Really hoping MS are going to kill this parasitic industry hanging out the back of their wonderful simulator.

I, for one, will not be sad to see the lot of them doing a CFIT.

2 cents well spent.

You're entitled to your opinion, but I think it's unfortunate. Install bone-stock P3d to a drive some time and fly around. See how long it holds your interest. Those 3rd party developers you're busy dumping on have turned a boring, low-fidelity "simulator" into a thing of beauty. Speaking personally, the experience gulf between stock P3d and P3d with AS, Orbx, Flightbeam airports, and PMDG/Leonardo/QualityWings planes is vast. Those 3rd party developers gave me a challenge and an experience the stock sim never could, and I'm happy they're around.

 

2 hours ago, sjt said:

I don't really know why people find it necessary to believe they can give MS management lessons on how to run a business, but it seems from just this thread alone (fun and speculative though it is) there are a lot of people who really believe they find it so.

Well, I mean, some of us lived through Windows ME, and MS Bob, and the @#$@! paperclip. Not to mention their tone deafness toward their actual customer base when it came to Flight.

Microsoft has pulled some boneheaded moves in the past. It's not inconceivable that they'll do it in the future too.

 

[irrics 1,517]

9 minutes ago, eslader said:

You're entitled to your opinion, but I think it's unfortunate. Install bone-stock P3d to a drive some time and fly around. See how long it holds your interest. Those 3rd party developers you're busy dumping on have turned a boring, low-fidelity "simulator" into a thing of beauty. Speaking personally, the experience gulf between stock P3d and P3d with AS, Orbx, Flightbeam airports, and PMDG/Leonardo/QualityWings planes is vast. Those 3rd party developers gave me a challenge and an experience the stock sim never could, and I'm happy they're around.

Fully agree about barebones P3D.

But - wouldn't we say a lot of the 3rd stuff is really needed only because the base offering is so old, non-updated and barebones?

That was not the case back in the mid life cycle of MSFS.   I think the hope is that MS may be getting back in seriously here and the core offering is going to be far more feature complete than anytime in the last 15 years.

Edited June 14, 2019 by irrics
moving text around

[LHookins 3,103]

7 minutes ago, eslader said:

Install bone-stock P3d to a drive some time and fly around.

My P3D is mostly stock.  I have a few aircraft, Active Sky, and Accu-Feel.  No scenery.  I've got a lot of hours in it.  Eventually I added Active Sky Cloud Art, simply for the variety.

I flew FSX for about 4 years before I bought my first payware aircraft.  Up to that point everything was stock.  I had a LOT of hours in the Grumman Goose.  Of course, in those days Jeppesen weather still worked.

While I don't feel the need for scenery enhancements, I do like higher quality aircraft than what the stock sims usually provide.  At one time I might have flown the P3D F-16 and not needed any other aircraft. 🙂 

My latest aircraft purchase was the A2A Constellation, which was worth every penny.  Sometimes I want a more complex experience, sometimes a simpler one, and I'm glad complex aircraft exist.  I'm glad enhanced scenery exists as well, as it makes for great screen shots published by other people. 😄

Hook

[188AHC 2,138]

Randazzo didn't enter his business out of altruism either. I would fully expect him to say what he said as he said basically the same about Flight and FSW if memory serves me. 

However, any comments concerning market constriction by Microsoft are premature and I hope erroneous. 

Again, this entire topic is merely speculation. We will see what happens as time goes on. 

[bonchie 2,305]

3 hours ago, Rob_Ainscough said:

From Robert at PMDG via FSElite

”Randazzo, along with other developers has made comments in reference to Microsoft’s decision to develop add-ons themselves rather than allowing third-party developers access to their platform”

If this is accurate then it’s a dead-end product before release IMHO.  Microsoft can’t possibly keep up with the pace of add-ons we have for P3D/XP, not to mention the many extremely high quality aircraft from PMDG, FSLabs, Leonardo, MJC, Aerosoft, and several others.

I’m hoping it’s not accurate.

Cheers, Rob

I read that comment (there's another line you omitted) and it reads like a bad translation from someone who doesn't speak English very well, i.e. they don't actually know jack asked MS to let them develop but haven't heard anything. I highly, highly doubt MS called up a few 3rd party developers and said "oh yeah, there will be no SDK." They kept this thing top secret until three days ago. There's no incentive to tell anything to 3rd parties at this point.

As to it being a dead end, meh. Depends on what is there at launch. If the base game is really good, you won't need a constant stream of $25-100 addons.

All I know is that I hadn't played a flight simulator in over a year until a few days ago (needed to practice some procedures for an commercial checkride) because I'm just done with the current ones we have. I've sunk too much time and money (thousands and thousands of hours) into games I don't enjoy anymore. So if this new Flight Simulator sucks, then there's not much that changes for me. I'll just keep not playing flight sims.

Edited June 14, 2019 by bonchie

[LHookins 3,103]

I guess I should expand on my previous post.

There are hundreds, maybe even thousands of exceptional payware aircraft, some cheap, some quite expensive, that I will never buy.  But I'm glad they exist because some day I might want to fly one of them.  The A2A Constellation is actually in that category.  I bought it even though P3D already has two included which I never even looked at.

Hook

[LHookins 3,103]

4 hours ago, ganter said:

A little piece of me dies every time I have to pay out for a piece of scenery or a "study-level" aircraft.

Really hoping MS are going to kill this parasitic industry hanging out the back of their wonderful simulator.

I think you'll find that the alternative isn't that you'll get the same scenery or aircraft cheap, but that the scenery or aircraft simply won't exist.

Hook