I agree that third party add-ons keep a Sim alive for decades..

The main mission statement for MS should be "offer a brand new flightsim that has graphics and performance on par with current gen AAA titles, and a comprehensive, developer friendly SDK". 

1 minute ago, vin747 said:

I agree that third party add-ons keep a Sim alive for decades..

The main mission statement for MS should be "offer a brand new flightsim that has graphics and performance on par with current gen AAA titles, and a comprehensive, developer friendly SDK". 

That's what we would like to hear, but I wouldn't blame MS if they said something like "We appreciate what outside developers can bring for the long-term growth of a flight simulator, but we're going to hold off for a while, so our initial release is stable and we can grow from there. Full cooperation with 3rd parties and free end-user content is part of our plan"

That's essentially what DTG did with Flight Sim World. But they screwed up in not making it clear exactly what that development roadmap would look like. 

The longer MS stays silent about the roadmap after dropping this bombshell on the FS community, the more it's going to look like it's a closed system.

11 minutes ago, Paraffin said:

That's what we would like to hear, but I wouldn't blame MS if they said something like "We appreciate what outside developers can bring for the long-term growth of a flight simulator, but we're going to hold off for a while, so our initial release is stable and we can grow from there. Full cooperation with 3rd parties and free end-user content is part of our plan"

That's essentially what DTG did with Flight Sim World. But they screwed up in not making it clear exactly what that development roadmap would look like. 

The longer MS stays silent about the roadmap after dropping this bombshell on the FS community, the more it's going to look like it's a closed system.

They've basically got until public early access to get that out. Secrecy is fine as long as the product isn't in our hands yet.

But like I said repeatedly with DTG, you can't go public beta and not tell your customers what you have planned down the road.

Edited June 14, 20196 yr by bonchie

3 hours ago, CarlHill said:

I'm anxiously awaiting Rachel Maddow to confirm that MS has a new Flight Simulator.  Until then, this is all speculation.

Na, she is only into Hoaxes!

Edited June 14, 20196 yr by strider1

2 hours ago, 188AHC said:

Randazzo didn't enter his business out of altruism either. I would fully expect him to say what he said as he said basically the same about Flight and FSW if memory serves me.

Of course.  Just to clarify - I wasn't quoting him to endorse his statement, only to illustrate that FS Elite was off base when they reported he was talking about "Microsoft's decision."  Microsoft hasn't said anything about how they're going to structure their marketplace, and Randazzo's statement doesn't claim they did.  He says clearly that he doesn't know how they're going to come out.  FS Elite made a pretty significant error, and I wanted to call that out.

14 minutes ago, bonchie said:

They've basically got until public early access to get that out. Secrecy is fine as long as the product isn't in our hands yet.

I respectfully disagree. This announcement is causing people to hold off buying 3rd party add-ons for their current sim platforms. The longer it goes on without information on SDK, 3rd party support, and free addon support, the more it looks like MS trying to freeze out the competition with a fancy trailer and no real information about what's behind it. 

For example, I will probably buy the Orbx TE Washington scenery about to be released because it's where I live and I'm curious about what it looks like. But we already have people saying they won't buy it because MSFS will do it so much better. With no proof of that at all for the entire region, and not just what MS is showing in the video clip.

Standard disclaimer: I am excited for this and hope it does well. But I don't like the approach MS is using here with a fancy trailer and so many questions unanswered.

2 minutes ago, Paraffin said:

The longer it goes on without information on SDK, 3rd party support, and free addon support, the more it looks like MS trying to freeze out the competition with a fancy trailer and no real information about what's behind it. 

I could see how you get that impression but I don’t see how Orbx is owed anything in this situation, nor why Microsoft would care.  Orbx is ultimately a competitor. Not everyone has endles funds. $50 spent on Orbx Washington TE is $50 not spent on MSFS. I know it’s more complicated then that but you get the idea.

I want all the information I can get but I do get the impression the more the developers share the more drama that ensues. The more questions to answer. Then more expectations and bitterness set in bc it will be about what was said vs what was delivered. When planning any business you are never 100%. Even if you got 90% that 10% you didn’t can turn against you very very quickly if people expected it.

The best thing to do for them is deliver a product that sells if you ask me. If you sell it and people see success the rest will fall in line. 

8 minutes ago, Paraffin said:

Standard disclaimer: I am excited for this and hope it does well. But I don't like the approach MS is using here with a fancy trailer and so many questions unanswered.

I agree, this is the type of thing that happened with Flight before its release. Silence from Microsoft while forums ran rampant with so many speculating that it was this, that and Hawaii only. But its still early we will just have to wait. Still slightly worried about the fact it is on XBOX also. It would have to be a lighter version right? Same scenery and visuals but automated aircraft systems? 

18 minutes ago, reignman40 said:

Still slightly worried about the fact it is on XBOX also. It would have to be a lighter version right? Same scenery and visuals but automated aircraft systems? 

Not necessarily. As far as computing and graphics power goes, read up on the new "Scarlett" project Xbox this will run on, due for release at the end of 2020. It's a beast of a hardware spec, better than what most of us are using now as a PC for running flight sims. 

I have some questions about whether it will support the kinds of dedicated flight controls we use. Will it support my Thrustmaster Warthog HOTAS and pedals, and my Saitek multipanel? Possibly. Will it support other things like secondary displays for running a GPS, or multi-screen simpits? Who knows. But the hardware this new flight sim is aimed at -- the new Xbox in 2020 and PCs that can match that spec -- shouldn't be a limiting factor. It just depends on how far MS wants to take it, and what kind of customers they want to attract.

1 hour ago, Paraffin said:

For example, I will probably buy the Orbx TE Washington scenery about to be released because it's where I live and I'm curious about what it looks like. But we already have people saying they won't buy it because MSFS will do it so much better. With no proof of that at all for the entire region, and not just what MS is showing in the video clip.

I assume you're referring to me - and if not, I"ll just clarify since I'm in that camp either way.

The visual proof I need is already there for the Seattle area.  As for the rest of the state, they are using an ortho + intelligent autogen approach along with computational techniques to fill in anything missing.

Honestly, for me that's enough and it sounds fantastic.  It's also a more durable and updatable approach vs the way OrbX has to do it.

My lack of investment in TE WA is actually just as much about platform ambiguity at this point also.  I find XP to be lost in terms of direction and the more I hear from Austin over time, the less convinced I am that platform will ever get where I would hope.

As for P3D?  I bailed on it basically when RealAir closed up.  It's just too old and too pieced together for me anymore.  I sort of had all the fun I was going to with the old FS engine, even with LM improvements to it.  They do an amazing job with it, but I'm just done with the patched together house on the old foundation.

Truly, this MSFS teaser is the most exciting thing I've seen in this space in over a decade.  Very very excited and ready to adopt whatever their vision will be.

Nothing speaks in the FS space quite like resources and new technology.

Also, I can honestly say I was dreaming about this approach to scenery from the first time I zipped around in Google Earth with 3D buildings way back whenever that first came out (I think it was only in a desktop App at the time)

Edited June 14, 20196 yr by irrics

In which store will the game released?

Microsoft Store?

Steam?

Epic Game Store?
Thanks you

I saw this:

In the past they (Microsoft) have tried to cater for the existing flight sim community and it has backfired on them. Because of this I think they will so their best to ignore it (clean slate). One of the reasons why is due to the fact that the user-base is not large enough to warrant caring about. Differing hardware among users also creates issues, as does members harking on over a return to something akin to FSX 2.0! Get rid of the constraints and you are free to explore new ideas. 

Also, next year sees the release of the new Xbox, which is rumoured to be 4X more powerful than the current model, so this could be one way to show off its capabilities. When you take in the number of consoles sold, the amount of users who have at least a passing interest in aviation, then I think you could probably come up with a good business model (look at Infinite Flight).  

Yes, by the looks of things there will be a PC version, but I expect that it will be only available through Microsoft (and why not). The areas I have seen in the trailer all look photo real, so I am guessing that these will be cloud sourced, downloadable areas (for a price).  

Personally, after saying all of the above; it would be great to have something resembling FSX 2.0, complete with an SDK, but...I don't think the business model will allow for that kind of development.  

The aim of the game is to make money, and the only way you can do that sometimes...is by starting afresh

Microsoft have new tech to show off...high speed data streaming for one...so what better way to promote that.

Sometimes the product you see at the forefront is not necessary the main aim or objective of the company in question.

So, I think the real bottom line is:

Do you REALLY think Microsoft reads 60 odd pages of stuff here, & takes not?

Yeah...but will on deaf ears. A multimillion dollar project is not going to be decided by a group of 2000 over 50's!

Confession time: to this date i don't really see why the DLC issue keeps popping up. Are addon developers working for a charity? Because i thought they have been selling Downloadable Content for years now.

Eh, but Microsoft/DTG is evil. How dare they sell addons for Flight back then and then FSX-SE and then FSW. 😛 
Ahh, the community.

A little of topic but I really am curious what LM and Laminar are thinking ..... 😩

1 minute ago, GSalden said:

A little of topic but I really am curious what LM and Laminar are thinking ..... 😩

OH S@@@!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!🙄