24 minutes ago, simbol said:

Users will use and stay with a Simulator were 3rd party developers are able to provide their products.

If the MS 2019 SDK and methods to deliver content are too awkward and complicated, developers will stay with XP and P3D, leaving users with only the default product content.

If that was the case, would that be enough for users to keep using it? Maybe, we will see but my experience tells me users would buy it for curiosity and return back to the simulator were they can use their favorite addons.

For example, I would hate to fly without GSX and my preferred AI traffic, I would get bored of such nice looks if the immersion experience is missing.

I hope MS understand this, however they are quite popular for living in their own bubble and ignoring users needs.

Simbol 

 

Oh yeah, stay with P3D and X-Plane, after watching that launch video?

You're a Developer and I'll play Devil's Advocate and say - with a totally straight face;

"That, my dear Sir, is wishful thinking."

You guys are so on the back foot with this. And you know it.

Talk amongst yourselves, come up with a plan.

Here's a starter for 10 points; Lower your prices.

Your Stocks are going to take a tumble.

Edited June 12, 20196 yr by Guest

Just now, vortex681 said:

Thanks for that, but it was more the distinction between paying periodically for something versus making a one-off payment that interested me (I must be really bored today!).

There is no difference. One license has a recurring fee, the other is lump sum. They both work the same way. 

Pay-to-play services are a bit more complicated, as you are not paying for the software per se, but you are paying someone to provide it to you. In their usage terms there will certainly be a part about termination of the contract too, and in most cases many words will tell you that you are out of luck if anything goes wrong. If the provider goes down, there is no way you can make a claim. And they will have protected themselves against additional lawsuits from users after they went bankrupt.

Not sure about how GamePass will work regarding possible addons. Maybe you just pay more every month, and everything is covered by the one fee. The whole concept doesn't leave much room for addons as we know them.

Best regards

12 minutes ago, simbol said:

they are quite popular for living in their own bubble and ignoring users needs.

From the sounds of it, they are living in this bubble (quote from the article linked above)

Quote

In the last 20 years, we’ve tripled the number of gamers. We’re coming up on $150 billion of top-line revenue from the game industry. We’re going after 2 billion players.

They probably won't mind 200K flightsim enthusiasts going back to their sim of preference if 5 million players are left who just enjoy the visuals.

Best regards

 

Edited June 12, 20196 yr by Lorby_SI

9 minutes ago, ganter said:

 

Oh yeah, stay with P3D and X-Plane, after watching that launch video?

You're a Developer and I'll play Devil's Advocate and say - with a totally straight face;

"That, my dear Sir, is wishful thinking."

You guys are so on the back foot with this. And you know it.

Talk amongst yourselves, come up with a plan.

Here's a starter for 10 points; Lower your prices.

Haha this is the funniest post I have read in years.

The reality my friend is that if you want to receive your favorite add-on's in this new sim (assuming a SDK would be available) you would need to buy them again, good luck convincing PMDG to give you any of their products for free for MS 2019 for example.

This is more revenue for us really, my previous post was my opinion as flying simulator user as I fly very often.

Regards,

Simbol

There is a plus side this will expose a few million new gamers to flight sim and they may want to see what else is out there for flight sim.

9 minutes ago, Lorby_SI said:

There is no difference. One license has a recurring fee, the other is lump sum. They both work the same way. 

I think I must just be becoming nostalgic for the days when I still thought that I actually owned something that I'd paid for!

10 minutes ago, simbol said:

Haha this is the funniest post I have read in years.

The reality my friend is that if you want to receive your favorite add-on's in this new sim (assuming a SDK would be available) you would need to buy them again, good luck convincing PMDG to give you any of their products for free for MS 2019 for example.

This is more revenue for us really, my previous post was my opinion as flying simulator user as I fly very often.

Regards,

Simbol

In my previous post I hinted but didn't exactly state my view as to the arrogance of certain Devs.

But you've done a sterling job of exhibiting just that in the above. Saved me the effort. Thanks.

Edited June 12, 20196 yr by Guest

2 minutes ago, vortex681 said:

I think I must just be becoming nostalgic for the days when I still thought that I actually owned something that I'd paid for!

Do we ever really "Own" anything?  Our houses, property, cars, boats, planes can all be paid for but who really owns them?  I would say the state we live in.  Miss those property taxes and BAM, seizure of said belongings...LOL

1 hour ago, vortex681 said:

But with something as complex as an operating system, someone, somewhere is guaranteed to have problems with it.

That's definitely true, but you can't say that the problems with win10 patches are at the same level as the problems with win 7 patches (win 8 doesn't count because, like, 5 people use that 😉 )

I mean, just the one where if you didn't have enough disk space it bricked your machine was mind-bogglingly stupid. Who decided not to have a storage capacity check? What's happening is that MS is transitioning beta testing over to its customers. Push it out, right now, then fix things when people holler.

Hopefully they've learned from the Win10 reputation hit and won't do it again but...

I'm not trying to say that FS'20 is gonna be bad. Sometimes Microsoft outdoes itself. Sometimes it falls on its face. Usually which outcome actually happens depends on how greedy the company gets in its development plan.

3 hours ago, ckyliu said:

Honestly I get fed up with community's seemingly continual hanging on to every word of RSR like he's a benevolent demigod and holding up PMDG as the only "study level" developer (for example asking PMDG repeatedly to do a 757 when the CS P3D one is basically PMDG standard).

I don't think anyone's "...hanging on to every word of RSR...".

I'm hardly a PMDG apologist.  I don't own a single PMDG product and it's unlikely I will anytime in the future as tubes just ain't my thing (though every once in while the maddog does tempt me 🙂).  Nevertheless, I read his comments and pretty much agreed with his thoughts.  Not because he's some "benevolent demigod", but because what he said was reasoned, considered and made sense.

Scott

7 minutes ago, tttocs said:

I don't think anyone's "...hanging on to every word of RSR...".

I'm hardly a PMDG apologist.  I don't own a single PMDG product and it's unlikely I will anytime in the future as tubes just ain't my thing (though every once in while the maddog does tempt me 🙂).  Nevertheless, I read his comments and pretty much agreed with his thoughts.  Not because he's some "benevolent demigod", but because what he said was reasoned, considered and made sense.

Scott

Sorry, but that's Nuts.

What he said was a hastily put together Panic Press-release.

Kyle and he are already arguing about who takes the begging bowl to MS.

I say Kyle; it'll be life-affirming for him.

28 minutes ago, Lorby_SI said:

Not sure about how GamePass will work regarding possible addons. 

Yeah, no kidding. How many people want to pay extra if you're already paying a subscription?

Quote

 

Maybe you just pay more every month, and everything is covered by the one fee. The whole concept doesn't leave much room for addons as we know them.

 

One way it might work, would be an expansion pack with bundled aircraft and airports, with new ones sold at intervals. Like what some MMO games have done with periodic expansion packs. You still pay the monthly fee and aren't required to buy the expansions. It's just optional content. 

Of course that's not going to work if 3rd party developers want $40+ for each individual aircraft or airport. So if this is indeed a subscription-based sim, it's hard to imagine how it can support add-on developers, unless much lower selling cost is offset by huge numbers of new customers. Which could happen, I suppose.

8 minutes ago, ganter said:

Sorry, but that's Nuts.

What he said was a hastily put together Panic Press-release.

It seems to me that interpreting his statement can be and in this case is colored by personal dislike for him and/or his company. Nothing in his statement suggested panic. It boiled down to "we know just barely more today than we did last week, and that's not enough to base any conclusions on." That's rational. Assuming he's going to delegate a beggar to go panhandle scraps from Microsoft is not.

3 minutes ago, Paraffin said:

Yeah, no kidding. How many people want to pay extra if you're already paying a subscription? 

Eh. The MMO genre has been doing that forever. You pay a monthly subscription, and you also pay when an expansion comes out. It made Blizzard rich beyond belief. The gamer crowd is strange. They'll gladly pay $10 for in-game currency on a phone game. The trouble is that the *gamer* crowd is going to quickly get bored by a flight simulator where you don't shoot anyone down, and so if MS took that route, they'd have to hope the simmer crowd thinks like the gamer crowd does... And I don't think it does.

 

 

Edited June 12, 20196 yr by eslader

21 minutes ago, ganter said:

In my previous post I hinted but didn't exactly state my view as to the arrogance of certain Devs.

But you've done a sterling job of exhibiting just that in the above. Saved me the effort. Thanks.

You calling me arrogant is even more hilarious.

I suggest you ask around in the community about me before doing such statements.

Regards,

Simbol

31 minutes ago, simbol said:

Haha this is the funniest post I have read in years.

The reality my friend is that if you want to receive your favorite add-on's in this new sim (assuming a SDK would be available) you would need to buy them again, good luck convincing PMDG to give you any of their products for free for MS 2019 for example.

This is more revenue for us really, my previous post was my opinion as flying simulator user as I fly very often.

Regards,

Simbol

He's completely right. I now have zero interest in any other flight sim. FS2020 is light years beyond anything on the market today, and that's a stock sim.