been there, done that...:-)actually, I ignored the aarp solicitations for several years...until I finally realized the discounts are not all that bad. I still don't ead the magazine...oh, and how about the thrill of walking up to the ticket seller at the local cineplex and asking for two senior tickets...yikes!but, as you and I, and probably everyone else in our situation knows, there's a real live 17 year old kid inside each and every one of us. Age is only a state of mind...Sherm

Actually, there is an 18 year old blond bombshell out there for all of us old f**ts. But we won't go there. :-lolAs for my internal 17 year old, he's actually closer to 35. 17 was too young, but 35 was "old enough to know better, but too young to give a ####".

>Doug,>>You are 50 and I am 54, we both can engage in meaningful>debate what is important or less important in this product.>But there are lots of "kids" here who view the MSFS through>the prism of first-shooter games.>>Michael J.Oh, come on, you never feel the urge to blow up something ;)? I remeber my father not so long time ago at the age of 50 was still playing some shoot-em-up computer games on my Spectrum ;).Think outside the box and try those for a change:- I once or twice used X-Wing model (don't ask where I got it from ;) )to fly on some popular network (and this network in my region is full of armchair capitans with big sticks "as real as it gets" up in their bottoms). I still remeber the scream in my headphones when after I said "XXX Approach, Rogue Four 0.3 lightyears form Rebel Base, descending from FL6000, 0.5 lightspeed with information Zulu". Immediately they demanded kick out, ban, my house burned to the ashes and myself imprisioned by supervisor who turned out... to be big Starwars fan.- I have found and Indian motorbike model for FS and filled my fp with Indian as aircraft model and "traffic pattern" around airport,then I tried but I didn't get IFR clearance to Vienna from LAX for some unknown reasons.- use my throttle gear to control zoom in/out in graphics application I use everyday. I can control speed or most aircrafts in FS to 0.5 knots precision thanks to this.- I tried to use my midi keyboard (it looks like a piano) to control various buttons in more complex models, but it didn't work - some chords just didn't sound good and autopilot was going crazy. I also have midi guitar controller, so it's something to look at in the future.But back on topic.I am 37 and all I care about is to have some fun when playing FS. It is fine game, very different to what the market has to offer nowadays and will be even better in next incarnation. Being an armchair game designer is even easier than being armchair 747 captain - so I agree with Doug 100%, in my a bit lighter way!P.S. MICROSOFT - I demand you put guns and rockets and animated female flight attendants in next version, because it's not realistic to do not have those!

<<21 million units * $60 = $1.26 Billion, which is far greater than the price for a full commercial simulator so the things that we are asking for are relatively small compared to the $1.26 Billion that Microsoft have been paid.>>Hmm, I take it you're not in the packaged software business? You'll need a more sophisticated formula if you want to figure out a number like that.First, the product hasn't sold for $60 over all versions as far as I know. You need to research each prior version's pricing and account for inflation.Second, you seem to be using the MSRP at launch. As you may know all software, games in particular, are discounted heavily after launch. For instance, FS2004 is currently selling for $26 on Amazon.com. So you really need a time-based model for each version that captures revenue over its lifespan.Third, just all software vendors that sell through the retail channel Microsoft only sees a fraction of the sale price after the distributor and retailer take their cuts, which may include additonal incentives.Last, Microsoft, like all publically traded companies operates on yearly budgets, so what we sold last year doesn't matter at all--only whether we meet our current goals.Try some of this in Excel. It would be interesting to see what you come up with. Post it when you've got some better estimates.As a said above, we love to see comments and email from customers. It makes us feel good to know people care enough about our products to take the time. It's just that we've always made product decisions for business reasons and always will. Up to now, and hopefully far into the future, the outcome of those decisions coincides with what you want more often than not. ;)

I can't get my 68 yr old retired Dad involved in FS, but he sure loves DOOM3 and Castle Wolfenstein, LOL"animated female flight attendants" YES!!!! Jason, you agree?Regards, MichaelKDFWhttp://www.calvirair.com/mcpics/mcdcvabanner.jpgCalVirAir International

Depends on who that attendant is. :)Any way we could import that "special lady" into FS as that attendant? Such as person one could have his wife and i could have mine. :)

Ah, it's so refreshing to read a well constructed, well thought out and grammatically correct post such as Doug's which presents us with a sensible perspective on a passionate subject (for some). We have much to learn from posts like his. Thank you sir.

Excellent post, well said Doug. Thanks for taking the time.Cheers,Chris Porter:-outta

Dell XPS Gen3 (3.6GHz/800FSB) | 2GB DDR SDRAM | 74GB SATA, 10k RPM (C: ) | 120GB SATA (D: ) | 256MB ATI Radeon X800 XT (Catalyst 5.13) | Audigy 2 ZS Sound | MS Force Feedback 2 | WindowsXP Pro (SP2) | DirectX 9.0cHey Doug you've got a heck of a system. Better than the norm. Let's cast our minds back in history. On a board just like this."Stop bugging Intel. I love my 286 with 16 mb of memory. I'm tired of these demanding spoiled brats prattling about faster processors. No manners these young ones. Demanding faster computers with more memory. Be satisfied with what you have. There's a whole generation of individuals posting here who feel they're entitled to faster processors and more memory. You arrogant sods! I for one am completely satisfied with my 286. It's a privilege to have Intel build us these nice processors. Intel, I love you. Go at your own pace. Hey, if you want to back to the 8086 I'll be happy because it's a privilege to wait patiently at your feet and not be a snotty demanding brat. Yes, I'll gladly pay a couple thou just to have the privilege of downgrading my puter. After all, you are my beautiful gifthorse Intel!"

That was back then. Nows he's on the bleeding edge of technology ;)

Very well said Doug. Looks like you hit a few nerves too. LOLTdragger: Gosh...here I thought MS mades it's billions off FS. Thanks for ruining my dream. :)Len: Your analogy of Doug's post is way off. He never said anything about not suggesting things that could be added to FS, but the waypeople are asking. Plz read again...

#####! Just because you have to pay for something does not mean you have the right to be rude either. It also does not give you or anyone else the right to make demands either. If you don't like it, don't buy it. It's that simple. It doesn't mean that the FS team does not take great pride in their work. The FS team doesn't make 100%$ of the sales of the product, ******* H christ.If you've got something to say or ask, then say it in a half way decent manner.Another thing: This is a business for MS and they have every right to make money. You all need to understand that. This is not a democracy when it comes to this subject. Get that out of your heads right now.It was by the FS teams choice to become more personally involved in the FS community.Take that crap out of here, I don't care what your excuse is.*Edit: that was in repsonse to another poster, not yours Mike...LOL We posted over each other.

DougI have been involved in the Avsim forums almost from day one and hence I have seen most of the inter sim debates when Fly! Pro Pilot, FU3 etc were at their peak.Sometimes the debates have degenerated into out of control personal attacks or pack instincts more akin to punch ups at football matches.Tom and Avsim have made huge strides from back then to making these forums a "nice" place to be.Having said that I quite like water with ripples and waves as a flat suface gets a bit boring and lifeless.A saying come to mind"If you dont push the limits you will never find what lies beyond".I personally love and admire people who push the limits no matter what field they are in.What I am saying here is that if you dont ask you dont get and I see nothing wrong with people demanding on MS to make the sim into what they want.I am sure that MS are big enough to see through the flack and to get the broader message and maybe just maybe an idea might come up which will be used.Where I do agree with you is where people make personal attacks on each other which I find distasteful. They come across as pretty ignorant if thats the only way they can get their arguement across.As for colour in the forums? the more colour the better and the more characters the better as that makes for an interesting invironment.PeterNB MS please dont forget a living, dynamic weather system, with actual highs, lows and weather systems. We need colour and character in the sim as well to breath life into that invironment too ;-)Tom I know people of 40 who look and act like 60 and I know people of 60 who look and act like 40.One of my best friends is an active ferry pilot of 73 who last year ferried a beat up old Cessna 340 from the USA to India single pilot.This ferry involved an Atlantic crossing with a turbo failure and some terrible storms over India.Jim Beaton the pilot is an example to us all because numbers are well just numbers :-)

Doug, I've made one or two suggestions for FSX on this forum and I don't think I was being arrogant. In fact Mike actually indicated that at least some of my wishes may come true! Surely there's nothing wrong in making suggestions about future features. I believe Microsoft actively encourages that. And the fact that several team members are actively participating on this forum reinforces this impression. (By the way, many thanks and much appreciation to Microsoft and the team for making this possible). I think virtually all discussion on this forum has been very civilised and is a tribute to all concerned. And, having read most of the posts, one word that doesn't really come to mind is 'arrogance'. If a forum participant makes a suggestion and goes on to say that Microsoft *must* implement it straight away then, yes, that would be arrogance. But it normally doesn't happen. I think the discussion on this forum has, by and large, been excellent - and long may it continue! Best regards, Chris

>Hey Doug - >>I haven't posted in quite some time (undoubtedly long before>you got here) but have been lurking a little more actively>lately with the announcement of FSX.>>I've gotta say - if after only the 100 or so posts you have>you're beginning to get frustrated, perhaps this isn't the>right place for you.>>This isn't to say what you're saying isn't legitimate - it's>partly legitimate. The other part is just a lecture.>>Maybe you're concerned that the dissident, irreverant,>complaining, whining voices in the crows are going to somehow>cause the Microsoft guys to decide it's not worth it to visit,>pull up their stakes, pack up, go home, and do whatever they>want?>>Seriously - if you don't like it, don't read it. It's been>there since the day the internet was turned on and it's not>going anywhere.>>With all due respect, everyone wants something different from>their experience and to suggest your desires hold more (or as>much) weight as that of anyone else is naiive.>>Let people be arrogant if they want. And sometimes people>don't realize when they're being arrogant.>>AndrewI guess what you are saying is that if Doug doesn't appreciate rude and arrogant comments from people on a flight sim forum such as this, he should go away and let the rude and arrogant people totally take over..... I'm with Doug, some of the comments from the professional whiners on this and other forums are really over the top and get really old after awhile. Just wait until the actual FSX is released. The habitual whiners will come out like cockroaches, when the lights are turned off in the kitchen.