Hi Bob-"I guess what you are saying is that if Doug doesn't appreciate rude and arrogant comments from people on a flight sim forum such as this, he should go away and let the rude and arrogant people totally take over..... "That may very well be what you guess I'm saying. But, is that what I'm saying?---And I've seen all the "fights" over FS and whatever else on Avsim since '98 or so. I have to laugh at how things polarize in here - much like a "Mac vs. PC" or "Vanilla vs. Chocolate" gangfight.IN THIS CORNER, the folks who know in their heart of hearts that Microsoft has their private interests in flight simming on a list, waiting for implementation, and basically give the program away free, or would, if they could, and IN THE OTHER CORNER, the immature, know-nothing whiny kids who can't be happy with what they have and whose requests may interfere with FS becoming reality itself.Really, I asked above, what comments/requests have been made that are so outlandish? I'm genuinely interested (as I was when I asked above).Either way, the camps in both corners simply want a great simming experience. There are people who want to see moving cars, and people who wouldn't mind if the only thing there were the runways. Ain't ever gonna change.cheers,Andrew

Andrew,This certainly has been a spirited exchange :)Maybe I wasn't clear enough in what I wrote. My concern is certainly NOT that we shouldn't ask Microsoft to add this or that (we should always be doing that), rather it's the WAY some folks ask.This, of course, is my own personal opinion and I fully understand there are those that disagree. I'm not a self-proclaimed culture cop here, just one guy standing amidst a sea of flight sim fanatics raising my hand and asking my fellow "pilots" to try and be a bit more considerate.In any event, this continues to be an awesome community that has given me (and many others) a lot of excellent support over the years. I'm very grateful for this place and the many that participate here!{This is where I wanted to add something funny to break the somewhat "serious" mood I started in this thread, but alas I couldn't think of anything because frankly, I'm just not that funny!}That said, maybe some of you can add something funny for me ;)DougDell XPS Gen3 (3.6GHz/800FSB) | 2GB DDR SDRAM | 74GB SATA, 10k RPM (C: ) | 120GB SATA (D: ) | 256MB ATI Radeon X800 XT (Catalyst 5.13) | Audigy 2 ZS Sound | MS Force Feedback 2 | WindowsXP Pro (SP2) | DirectX 9.0c

Why did the chicken cross the road?hehe to get too the other side... hahahah ha ha Oh wellguess I'll stick to my day job. oops wait I'm unemployed now... crappo...

If a man speaks in the woods and there is no woman there to hear, is he still wrong?"The Other" Doug

Lets say childish for some of those who tell the world that if FSX doesn't have "?" or "#$" they won't buy it. My friends, everyone is allowed to have an opinion but childish statements are those which allow we Sr. Citizens (well not too senior)to wonder about the maturity level of the posters. We don't care if you buy it or not. IMHO opinion Microsoft has delivered wonderful value through the years with the FS Series. I fly it, I buy add-ons for it and I don't consider any of it a waste of time. Well maybe that "too steep an approach at Gatwick the other night". To read some posts, usually from the same suspects, about this or that add-on not working correctly FOR THEM, or not giving them high FPS on their 286 can get old.Bring on the virtual FA (a female blonde for Tom)and give ATC a little larger brain and I will be happy.

BillLen: Your analogy of Doug's post is way off. He never said anythingabout not suggesting things that could be added to FS, but the waypeople are asking. Plz read again...No my point was made. He attenuated requests and even demands to being childish prattling. It was nothing but a blanket pejorative observation. I haven't found same on this site. My point was that one person's request is another's ill-mannered bleating. My example was to illustrate that any request for improvement could me marked as ill-mannered dependent on your sensitivity. In any event, the marketplace is not necessarily a peaceful place but a place of competitiveness, demands, requests etc. If one doesn't have the temperament for it then maybe something less straining should be done.

"{This is where I wanted to add something funny to break the somewhat "serious" mood I started in this thread, but alas I couldn't think of anything because frankly, I'm just not that funny!}"Well, that's fair enough. And frankly I believe the -real- difference in maturity is shown in how a debate is carried out... amicably, or otherwise. I don't think "outlandish" requests are a bad thing, but there are always people who are just itchin' for a fight, often at the cost of reason.So, with that in mind... a few of my favorite Deep Thoughts:If a kid asks where rain comes from, I think a cute thing to tell him is "God is crying." And if he asks why God is crying, another cute thing to tell him is "Probably because of something you did.""If you're in a war, instead of throwing a hand grenade at the enemy, throw one of those small pumpkins. Maybe it'll make everyone think how stupid war is, and while they are thinking, you can throw a real grenade at them.""I think a good product would be "Baby Duck Hat". It's a fake baby duck, which you strap on top of your head. Then you go swimming underwater until you find a mommy duck and her babies, and you join them. Then, all of a sudden, you stand up out of the water and roar like Godzilla. Man, those ducks really take off! Also, Baby Duck Hat is good for parties."Andrew

"Lets say childish for some of those who tell the world that if FSX doesn't have "?" or "#$" they won't buy it."That isn't necessarily a childish attitude. There is nothing wrong with not wanting to buy a product that does not meet your own expectations. Millions of people around the world make decisions like that every day.I have been disappointed with every version of MSFS from FS5 to FS2002, and therefore I would very much like to see lots of improvements in key areas for FSX. Since I have used the Flight Unlimited series for the past 9 years, I would like to see certain FU features and attributes incorporated into FSX. This is not any kind of demand, simply a "cross my fingers" type of hope.Whether this happens or not is pure speculation, but there is no harm in dreaming !Chris Low.

Well said. Agree 100%.

My guess is that since FSX is coming on DVD rather than CD there is going to be much more to this program than any other heretofore. The screen shots we are seeing suggest not much different in the way of scenery, except for more details. I am wondering whether FSX will have more in the way of atc much like the current $40 add on (name escapes me.) I also would expect better wx renditions, including clouds. And, who knows, there might actually be some real frame rate improvements. But, bottom line, to repeat my theme, as a dvd release this could be a major upgrade beyond anything we are now accustomed to.Sherm

Hello everyone,I agree with Andrew and some of the others about the "whiners" who want the shining "eye-candy" glimmers, and all the effects and then some. I for one care more about having realistic airplane flight dynamics, detailed panels and detailed airports with proper IFR ATC vectoring, than the looks.Let's face it, Microsoft WILL do a very good job with the graphics and the "looks" of FSX as that is already obvious from the preliminary screen shots. FS2004 even had very good graphics. However, I cannot compare how much better it was with respect to FS2002 for I did not start flightsimming until 2003 when I purchased 2004. But Microsoft's FSX is hopefully much more technical and balanced, for the fun and games part of simming seems to outweigh the technical accuracy requested by serious "die-hard" (or hard-core) simmers' (of which I'm one) like having great flight models, realistic vectoring by ATC etc... The FS2004 sceneries have great looks but really has only pitiful toys for airplanes. I don't even THINK about flying the default airplanes anymore and fly only payware aircraft. The ATC I basically turn it off when flying IFR with airport charts as it has, on several occasions vectored me at a really steep or awkward course to my FAF. I still have a lot to learn but certainly know enough of the difference of the "feel" of the default Cessna 172 for example compared to the amazing stability of the Flight 1 Cessna - no comparison. The default has "skates" on and after having talked online to actual Cessna pilots, I know the MS one is lacking.So, I think complaining about "looks" amount to wanting a lot of "candy" - eye candy that is. ... and candy is for little spoiled brat kids, not for flight simulation! I too expect a little more maturity from people as others have already mentioned in this thread.Can (John) Agbaba

Hi John - I think you're thinking of Doug.Cheers,Andrew