5 minutes ago, mSparks said:

DX12/Vulkan are what solve this, its the main thing they add over last gen.

Perversely enough the XBOX series x reveal actually did the best job Ive seen of marketing/explaining it.

 

Austins comment re the CEE and "we will see it when its ready" tells me he has graphics like

planned for XP12, despite the damage that will do to many scenery and plugin developers (he choked when questioned about "supporting" 3rd party developers, and avsim will defo censor any word I use to describe his feelings about taking tech support queries about zibo - enable yes, free support... no)

They almost have the engine now, all it needs is modern art assets.

So I dont think its a case that he doesnt understand why people use them as place holders - and more that he sees them as dead ends that cannot reach the quality/reliability/performance he requires.

Good art assets require talented and experienced artists, and no AI is remotely close to competing with that skill set - not any time soon anyway.

That video looks stunning! 

it's a combination of both. What you want to do is have procedural 3D object in conjunction with AI. So the AI recognize the object and build a 3d model based on that using assets artist have created. Like any AI, the more imagery you feed to it, the better it gets a recognizing objects and build proper 3D model. So there is a limitation has to you can only build different 3D model has you have asset created. Maybe in the future, Ai can build it's own 3D asset and generate 3D model based on that.  Don't forget MS is building a platform that will improve over time.

There is nothing preventing LR to do the same. If they go on and just handcraft the world, they will never be able to achieve the same result or if they do it will take a very long time to do. So If X-plane 12 wants to compete, they will need to step up their games in that aspect. They need to have better mesh, better default scenery and just better overall weather system that doesn't pause the game everything the METAR are refresh. I don't think LR is any danger once FS2020 is release but you will see players migration to FS2020 over time. To eventually just give up on Xplane all together. This is a very possible scenario. Of course he won't go out publicly and admit that he's scared of FS2020.  I do see an erosion of the market. I think both P3D and Xplane will lose market share overtime. 

7 minutes ago, fogboundturtle said:

it's a combination of both. What you want to do is have procedural 3D object in conjunction with AI. So the AI recognize the object and build a 3d model based on that using assets artist have created. Like any AI, the more imagery you feed to it, the better it gets a recognizing objects and build proper 3D model. So there is a limitation has to you can only build different 3D model has you have asset created. Maybe in the future, Ai can build it's own 3D asset and generate 3D model based on that.  Don't forget MS is building a platform that will improve over time.

There is nothing preventing LR to do the same. If they go on and just handcraft the world, they will never be able to achieve the same result or if they do it will take a very long time to do. So If X-plane 12 wants to compete, they will need to step up their games in that aspect. They need to have better mesh, better default scenery and just better overall weather system that doesn't pause the game everything the METAR are refresh. I don't think LR is any danger once FS2020 is release but you will see players migration to FS2020 over time. To eventually just give up on Xplane all together. This is a very possible scenario. Of course he won't go out publicly and admit that he's scared of FS2020.  I do see an erosion of the market. I think both P3D and Xplane will lose market share overtime. 

I think you are conflating two completely different issues.

You will never be able to fix lighting issues with a texture artist.

That has nothing to do with somebody making a mistake or incomplete data in openstreetmap.

xplane already does not have building placement issues

Edited June 24, 20205 yr by mSparks

1 minute ago, mSparks said:

I think you are conflating two completely different issues.

You will never be able to fix lighting issues with a texture artist.

That has nothing to do with somebody making a mistake or incomplete data in openstreetmap.

I agree and I don't think we'll see any major improvement on that aspect until the engine is converted to DX12 and start using Ray tracing

16 minutes ago, mSparks said:

DX12/Vulkan are what solve this, its the main thing they add over last gen.

Perversely enough the XBOX series x reveal actually did the best job Ive seen of marketing/explaining it.

Serious question, I am not having a go, but genuine.... If DX12 solves stutters etc.... Why do they still exist on P3DV5? (although not as much now with HF2, but, they're still there sometimes). In Vulkan I just cant create them under the same scenario. 

I am guessing that Shader Cache is what is causing the stuttering. This is something Vulkan handles by compiling all shader cache prior to loading a map and also can do async shader cache compile that minimize stuttering.

Just now, Ianrivaldosmith said:

Serious question, I am not having a go, but genuine.... If DX12 solves stutters etc.... Why do they still exist on P3DV5? (although not as much now with HF2, but, they're still there sometimes). In Vulkan I just cant create them under the same scenario. 

It doesnt solve it on its own.

The stutters come from the automated asset handling of earlier graphics apis, you cant solve it with those apis because there is no choice but to use their automated asset handling. (often described as the "black box")

DX12 and Vulkan do not provide any asset handling.

1 minute ago, mSparks said:

It doesnt solve it on its own.

The stutters come from the automated asset handling of earlier graphics apis, you cant solve it with those apis because there is no choice but to use their automated asset handling. (often described as the "black box")

DX12 and Vulkan do not provide any asset handling.

So, in essence, P3Dv5 will always have them to some extent? (sorry for my basic understanding of this stuff!)

4 minutes ago, Ianrivaldosmith said:

So, in essence, P3Dv5 will always have them to some extent? (sorry for my basic understanding of this stuff!)

with access the the asset handling they can be fixed - there is a future without them.

e.g.

https://developer.x-plane.com/2020/06/x-plane-11-50b11-now-available/#comments

Quote

Ben Supnik says:

June 20, 2020 at 11:40 pm

I think we’re close to run, ish? At this point we’re happy with VRAM allocation – or at least, it’s good enough…we could spend years tuning and tuning it, but most of the really brain damaged stuff seems to be fixed. Sidney has two sources of stutters fixed for b12, and we’ll see where we’re at.

 

27 minutes ago, fogboundturtle said:

I agree and I don't think we'll see any major improvement on that aspect until the engine is converted to DX12 and start using Ray tracing

DX12 raytracing (DXR) isnt as good as Vulkan raytracing.

Vulkan also has a much nicer developer tools, I might have stayed in gfx if those tools existed 20 or 30 years ago when I first got my feet wet. 

https://developer.nvidia.com/nsight-graphics

also, besides that. Just no.

https://gist.github.com/CHEF-KOCH/2159001a37716177c300852ea4a71244

Quote

With Vulkan you won't have to pay licensing fee's.

* You will gain more players from *nix, and older platforms. (could be as much as 20% more players to play Arma 3)

* Vulkan is a continuation of Mantle 1.0, the "foundation" of Vulkan is made up of parts of Mantle.

* DirectX 12 is a massive overhaul of DX11, but still only supports Windows 10

* Vulkan supports Windows, Linux, and OSX

* Vulkan being supported all over the place is arguably more important in our increasingly fragmented OS usage in gaming.

* DX12 is just another Microsoft attempt to lock users into their OS for another 10+ years. Please do not support it if you want there to be competition.

* If Steam machines are a success, AAA devs will want to use Vulcan, to make their games compatible with SteamOS

* It should work on all gpus from at least 3 years back. - No need to upgrade your GPU just to use it.

* Being Multiplatform means if they want to branch out to other Operating systems, the transition is considerably less painful.

 

There is a lot of resentment towards MS is those statement. I do like Vulkan but I don't see any issue with DX12 too. Let's be honest, You will see a lot more DX12 implementation than Vulkan.  This is just the reality. Whether one is better than the other is irrelevant. 

4 minutes ago, mSparks said:

DX12 raytracing (DXR) isnt as good as Vulkan raytracing.

Vulkan also has a much nicer developer tools, I might have stayed in gfx if those tools existed 20 or 30 years ago when I first got my feet wet. 

https://developer.nvidia.com/nsight-graphics

also, besides that. Just no.

https://gist.github.com/CHEF-KOCH/2159001a37716177c300852ea4a71244

 

Now if Vulkan would only get VRSS...

14 minutes ago, fogboundturtle said:

There is a lot of resentment towards MS is those statement. I do like Vulkan but I don't see any issue with DX12 too. Let's be honest, You will see a lot more DX12 implementation than Vulkan.  This is just the reality. Whether one is better than the other is irrelevant. 

Just in case you hadnt noticed

Its 2020

More than a decade after Microsoft bought Minecraft to try and reach an entire generation that had never heard of them.

Yet still a single city in China has more linux/vulkan users than there are windows 10 installs.

But yeah, if you are willing to ignore 99.9999% of the market, microsoft are still the dominant player for desktop PCs in native english speaking countries.

You should actually listen to the interview, Austin does a much more succinct job of explaining that than I could.

Edited June 24, 20205 yr by mSparks

I've listen to Austin talk many many times. I just don't agree with all of his views. It's ok to disagree.

2 hours ago, mSparks said:

Austins comment re the CEE and "we will see it when its ready" tells me he has graphics like

planned for XP12, despite the damage that will do to many scenery and plugin developers (he choked when questioned about "supporting" 3rd party developers, and avsim will defo censor any word I use to describe his feelings about taking tech support queries about zibo - enable yes, free support... noooo)

They almost have the engine now, all it needs is modern art assets.

As much as I'd like this to be true, I have to ask how you come to that conclusion from a few vague comments on an interview, unless you know something we don't. A completely procedurally generated world at the level of quality seen in Unigine would absolutely give MS a run for its money, but it seems so far-fetched and unlikely at the moment. Imagine scenery developers having a playpen like that to work with as opposed to what we currently have now.