Exactly,The PMDG 737NG came out when FS2002 was still in it's prime. We got a free upgrade then to FS2004 from PMDG.ATR came out in the prime of FS2004 and now we get a free upgrade to FSX.There is no difference really then, both companies have offered a free upgrade to the next sim in the series depending on when it was first released.IMHO the NG is due for a complete rebuild as it is showing it's age in temrs of performance anyway.Glenn

>Would all those who disagree with free upgrades>mind paying if windows update suddenly charged $2 per>update??>Why should that be free, I mean you bought it on Tuesday why>should you get next weeks updates free or even next 2 years>free?>>I certainly don't blame Devs for charging for upgrades, but I>think where the point about you bought if for FS9 falls over>is this.>>The PMDG 747 for example came out relatively near the end of>FS9's life cycle. Whilst it currently does not work, and one>hopes the upgrade to FSX is quick, we have no idea how hard or>long it will take. What we do hope is that the price for the>upgrade is a fair one based on how much work it really took.>Now that could be 2 or 3 lines of code to as much as a total>re-write. Nobody expects all the FSX features, but we expect>it to work, and her-in lies the problem.>>I think as an add on developer you cant realistically expect>someone to buy an add on for FS9 knowing that in less than 7>months time FSX will be here and say to them well you bought>it for FS9. All this does is create a vacuum in FSX and the>process repeats plus you cant expect people to use 2 versions>of the Sim knowing that the newer version is probably better>in most cases. I am in no way saying that Devs do this, but>there has to be a little give and take on both sides and in>most cases there is.>>The way I see it is like this. Developers of add-ons>especially stuff like PMDG Level D for example which are>probably the best add-ons going have to understand that we>have waited for these ad-dons, we love them and don't want to>be without them, however it is also our responsibility to be>reasonable and expect waiting times for patches and fixes.>What I as a consumer would expect is that if it is clear a>patch can be made to make something work and can be done quite>easily then it should be free, also if the product was>released near the end of one sims life cycle then either the>dev should swallow the cost of the patch for the new version,>or with-hold the addon until its fully compatible with the new>version of the sim. This may lead to a drop off in sales or>add-ons available but at least a new sim has ad dons- ready to>go. I dont agree with buying and add-on then having to pay>half the price again in 2-3 months time.>>Just my humble opinion>>JasonWith respect Jason, the Windows updates thing... - that's more comparable to say service packs we all got for the PMDG, LDS and other products we all got free.I bought the 744 relatively late, in February of this year - I do not expect a free update. I bought it for fs9 as advertised, and I've had a blast I might add.Here's my general analogy: I buy an '04 Camry (fs9) and in 06 get an after market whatsiz (PMDG744) designed specifically for an 04 CamryWhen I buy an 07 Camry (FSX) I then go back to the whatsiz dealer and expect a free 'upgrade' to fit my redesigned 07 Camry?To me, the time I bought it is irrelevant as well - I got what was clearly advertised. It's a nice thing to do to give stuff free to customers, but at the end of the day all I expect is value for my money at the time of purchase - period. regards,Markhttp://www.precisionmanuals.com/images/forum/747400.jpgXPHomeSP2/FS9.1/3.2HT/1024mb/X700pro256

I only wish Intel would have an upgrade program.:)

What you have to remember is all the PMDG aircraft are programmed 'outside the box'. The Queen for example only uses FS to display the aircraft, scenery and wx, the Lady herself runs outside of FS in the background.As pointed out, the 737NG was a pre-FS9 aircraft. Remember the 737-400 from Dreamfleet? That wasn't upgraded to FS9, it had already had an update to FS2002 from FS2000.It's swings and roundabouts, I doubt you will see a free upgrade for the Queen as it's a monster plane, I've got my doubts whether the 767 from lvlD will be a free update. I believe Eaglesoft have updated the Cirrus planes FOC, and I know several other packages are being done for Free, while some are not.FSPassengers we don't know about yet, as Dan has to see how much work is involved. Many sceneries won't work, and a lot of the scenery designers are worried whether they can do it.Emma Field is being negotiated, but in all likelihood it won't be free as it's got to be completely re-written.I think that's the crux, what the developers can do free they will, if it's a lot of work or a 2002 version then we'll be charged, which to me is fair enough, as long as the charges are reasonable.

They do. It's just not free :-) . - Doug

Agree. Asking users to repay the full amount for the upgrade is a total joke.

I don't expect everything for free... I would expect it at either some major discount for exsisitng users or yes, a free upgrade."What exactly do you expect?

> The PMDG B737 has to be redesigned and rebuilt from scratch.Total baloney! Take for instance the coding in the MCP/FMC. Do you really think it will all have to be scrapped because of FSX?? No it will not.

>Agree. Asking users to repay the full amount for the upgrade>is a total joke.If I were a payware vendor. This would be my strategy. IF I can tweak it to run it in FSX. I would give it out free.If it requires substantial work. Forget about moving it to FSX. Do an altogether a new scenery/aircraft. After all, the work is going to be the same. So why give others an opportunity to call that effort a "joke".But ofcourse.. I hope PMDG will not listen to me...and move that 747 to FSX. :(Manny

Dan,You shouldn't be surprised that the same company that charges just to redownload your products would also charge you for an upgrade.PMDG is well known for nickle and dimeing their customers for as much as possible. Do as I did and stop buying their stuff---there's simply too many great aircraft out there that offer FAR superior support to that of PMDG. And for that matter, the PMDG 737 isn't even the best on the market these days. Sorry that you got bilked, but hey look at it as a lesson and move on. Just don't forget!

>With respect Jason, the Windows updates thing... - that's more>comparable to say service packs we all got for the PMDG, LDS>and other products we all got free.>>I bought the 744 relatively late, in February of this year - I>do not expect a free update. I bought it for fs9 as>advertised, and I've had a blast I might add.>>Here's my general analogy: I buy an '04 Camry (fs9) and in 06>get an after market whatsiz (PMDG744) designed specifically>for an 04 Camry>>When I buy an 07 Camry (FSX) I then go back to the whatsiz>dealer and expect a free 'upgrade' to fit my redesigned 07>Camry?>>To me, the time I bought it is irrelevant as well - I got what>was clearly advertised. It's a nice thing to do to give stuff>free to customers, but at the end of the day all I expect is>value for my money at the time of purchase - period.> >regards,>Mark>http://www.precisionmanuals.com/images/forum/747400.jpg>XPHomeSP2/FS9.1/3.2HT/1024mb/X700pro256I disagree, you must also consider the market in which add-on devs are releasing their product. I am in charge of software purchasing for my dept. All most all software I buy for the develpment of our products only give "service packs for one year" My anology towards windows update is the same thing, they don't have but they do. Most do not want a new 747 we want the one we bought, what that involves is up to the likes of PMDG.. however the point being is this: If its only a new installer to change file paths and a few lines of code then there should be consideration of it being free!! I mean the service packs for windows often weigh in at over 200MB and contain up to a years worth of coding yet they are free.I don't get the VSpec free for my skyline, but then I can drive my Skyline on any road without it. Its horses for courses is all I am saying, its a question of judgment and fairness all round.So with respect I think you missed my point!! If you want to keep FS2002 FS9 and FSX on your system go ahead, Id rather have just FSX with pathced but working FS9 code in FSX whilst I wait, and if the patches are free or fairly priced i think FS can only go from strength to strength..This very same argument rages and rages every time as new FS is released. Yes Aces do not upgrade FS9 for us for free, but they patch it for free!! Why should they, I mean if in 6 months time they decide to add new features should they not charge, if its to fix bugs so what it still works as advertised right. I does not say on the box you can fly to KTEX and not have CTD, yet that may happen!!!But i can bet you wont pay for the fix or patch..To my mind a change of file paths and maybe one or 2 very minor things do not or should I say I dont think warrent a price of half of the orignal price.. But maybe thats becuase I am a fair guy.And yes if it was my company I would issue a free patch in the critera covered in my posts.I JUST WANT TO SAY I AM MERELY USING PMDG AS AN EXAMPLE ADD-ON. I AM IN NO WAY JIBING THEM!!!!Jason

Jason, Thank you. well said. This is exactly my point, I guess I just didn't use the correct wording as Jason has.Dan

"Your facts are wrong Dan. There is no PMDG 737 "upgrade" for FSX, free or otherwise. The current PMDG 737 is an obsolete aircraft that's being completely redone. It's a whole new aircraft, not an "upgrade". And, that's why it isn't being offered "free" to anyone who happens to now own the old one." As someone else stated. I'm just using PMDG as an example, because they are the ones that stated that there will be no free upgrades for any of their products. Flight1 stated that their updated would be free. I'm using these two companies as examples. I love PMDG's planes, I have several, same with Flight 1 packages. I guess I'm just tired of companies milking us for everything they can when it comes to computer software, updates, upgrades, patches. A great example of being ripped off every year is EA Sports Madden series. Every year they charge the going rate of games (this year it's $50+ USD) for nothing more then a roster update and a little bit of graphics eyecandy. Now it's bleeding into my other hobby, flightsimming. We pay out the butt for hardware to run these flight sims, then we are expected to pay more to use our favorite a/c in the new versions. Trust me I fully understand cost of business. Here's my thoughts on this. You give the faithfull exsistings customers free upgrades or patches, this way you keep these customers to spend more money on other products you offer because now they trust your services. Your going to make money on the new customers you going to get because of word of mouth. You're rebuilding the software anyway and going to make money on the news sales, so it's not like you losing anything by giving your exsisting customers something free, you had to do the work anyway.Just my thoughts, sorry if I started a war of this.Dan

Dan you did not have to purchase the PMDG product. Is says clearly on their site, and the packaging, that it runs on FS9. You were aware that FSX was due out yet still bought it. Did you enquire before purchase if there would be a free upgrade?The ball was always in your court buddy.CheersSteve

Edited (Duplicate post)