>I think they are trying to take advantage of their customersI thought flight sim users were adults, comments like this keep proving me wrong!

"I think they are trying to take advantage of their customers; me being one of them."We understand that a few folks think along the lines that you outline here:-)Consider that the Liberty XL2 1.5 for FSX is a whopping $16.07 thru November 30, 2006 for owners of our FS9 model.There is no pressure on you or any person to purchase the Liberty XL 1.5 for FSX even at the low price of $16.07:-)

Hi RonMany simmers have been able to convert a number of aircraft. Carenado is one that comes to mind. The big question for me is not really the cost so to speak but rather what I am paying for. I know this may sound funny but I would like to coin a phrase here just to simplify the discussion. I will call it "FSX Certified". My concern here is and please excuse my igorance on this but is it possible to add new FSX Certified features but at the same time retain some of the legacy features even though that legacy feature may not be quite as functional or may not look as good whatever applies? So an FXS Certified plane would be one that contains no legacy code or code thay may be backward compatible, or may be sub-standard in some form or another but still not really be a flaw to the untrained eye?Maybe like buying a toyota with a chevy engine in it.I hope I said this right. Do you kindof understand what I am trying to convey?Basically I just want to know what I am getting. Maybe it is 90% FSX Certified or something. Just curious. We are all newbies again!!RegardsBob Ginn

Bob, we know of no FSX Certified Program and doubt that any Developer would participate in such a Program for a number of reasons.1. Who is the governing authority and who sets the standard for such a program?2. Why would developers add yet another layer of workload to their already overloaded schedules?3. Who is the governing authority and who enforces the standard for such a program?It seems to us that some have the idea that developers are somehow "cheating the customer" if they charge a fair price for their work.:-) This attitude assumes that developers do a couple of minor tweaks for FSX and then start the "gravy train" rolling. It is quite obvious that this thread is intended to promote this misguided idea and also be inflammatory as evidenced by its title.We've heard this tired refrain since we began developing for flight simulator and no doubt will hear it again when the next developer on the block releases their FSX Product at some cost that consumers feel is "unfair to them":-) Sigh, and so it goes in the wonderful world of flight sim development:-)

I'm not an Eaglesoft customer, but I have been a purchaser of many products and gone through many upgrades. My take on something like this is that 70% is not a reasonable discount for an upgrade. It is well within the realm of what a sale might be in the not to distant future. I for one have gotten sick of upgrading Paint Shop Pro as soon as it comes out to only find that I can purchase the full product for less in just a few months. Acronis True Image is the same way. I've stopped upgrading and now just buy the new version on sale.If this really is a new product for FSX then don't call it an upgrade or update. Call it a new product and give your existing customers discounts across the board for all your new products. If it is an upgrade then charge 50% or less for it.My two cents. (Remember FSX is a new product not an upgrade)Bruce

>It seems to us that some have the idea that developers are>somehow "cheating the customer" if they charge a fair price>for their work.:-)Well said Ron! (Looking forward to the new Cit X)As pointed out by Owen, this sim has many more differences than previous versions and takes more work to bring a model up to FSX standards. It's obvious that many have no idea what is entailed in the production of a model for FS.Guys, there is a big difference now bewteen making a design "work" in FSX and truly designing it with all the features that FSX has to offer.I have the Carenado birds in FSX and yes, they work great, but are missing the FSX small features, such as self shadows, bumpmaps, advanced animations, etc.You think the aircraft developers are having a hard time, the scenery guys have it worse and expect totally new products instead of patches or upgrades.Regards, MichaelKDFW

Asus A8N32-SLI Deluxe nForce4 SLI-x16 / AMD

>I have the Carenado birds in FSX and yes, they work great, but>are missing the FSX small features, such as self shadows,>bumpmaps, advanced animations, etc.>Are these all built in the Liberty 1.5 FSX version then?

>Are these all built in the Liberty 1.5 FSX version then?Not all of them can be (or some unlisted features, I'm not sure), simply because the GMax SDK is coming out next week at the earliest. Before that no developer can release a plane add-on that makes full use of all the new things FSX offers (as far as I know).I'm quite certain THAT update for the Liberty 1.5 WILL be free, though, since Liberty 1.5 customers have already paid for their "FSX upgrades" on that particular plane :) They're just getting some of the upgrades at a later time.Note that I don't represent EagleSoft.

Well stated Ron :) If you don't like it, don't buy it :)

>Well stated Ron :) If you don't like it, don't buy it :)Ryan, we have no desire to offend anyone we when we state what most everyone in the world knows and understands.Prices are set in any retail business according to set of criteria that involves meeting all the costs associated with producing, distributing, and marketing a product and still allow for tax liabilties and a reasonable profit.The situation in the flight sim world is sometimes akin to walking into a retail establishment and complaining to the proprietor that they are "unfair in their pricing" and that they somehow "owe me a price break" and hoping for a positive reponse from the proprietor. It is probable that the proprietor would tell such a person to take that rubbish somewhere else.:-) :-)We do not place pressure on anyone to purchase our products. It is the customers job to determine if our products suit their needs at the posted price and work well on their own hardware and if not, take a pass.So I guess we are saying that if our product does meet your need at the posted pricepoint then we suggest that you pass on that product:-)

>I think you'll find that many of the truths we cling to depend>greatly upon our own point of view. Eaglesoft was once a good>friend and a cunning developer. Now they're twisted and evil,>more money machine than men.Obi-Wan?-Jeremy Burchhttp://home.earthlink.net/~dawgfighter/sit...es/swvasig1.gifSWVA4806 http://www.virtualswa.com/home.phpThe Ozark Dogfighter http://forums.avsim.net/images/wedge.gifCurrent system:Pentium 4 Cedar Mill 641 (3.40GHz), Abit AW8D, Gigabyte GeForce 7900GTX (512MB DDR3 PCI-Express x16),Corsair XMS2 Pro 2GB PC2 6400 (DDR2 800), 2 SeaGate Barracuda 250GB hard drives, Sound Blaster X-Fi PlatinumKlipsch ProMedia Ultra 5.1 speakers, NEC 20" CRT, Microsoft SideWinder Force Feedback 2Please note: System specs are for reference in tech forums only and are not to be taken as meaning anything else.Doing so will result in eye-rolling, possible teeth grinding and perhaps mild internal chuckling.Happy Flying!

Hi Bill,Sorry! Sean got me out of the missing "c" habit but I have relapsed...and it's too late to edit now (timed out).A grovelling apology.Rob

Hi Rob and Bill! Just a thanks to both for posting your views here:-)

>They purchased with>the full knowledge that they would probably have to upgrade>the plane when the new sim was released, and as far as I know>nobody from Eaglesoft ever said the upgrade would be free.>Caveat Emptor! Don't ever forget it.

Actually true, we stated that Eaglesoft would provide 30% discount coupons to assist customers in the transition to FSX. That was mid to late September if memory serves:-)