What's missing in MSFS?

[SirDan 471]

Trains!!! We need Trains Choo choo!!!!

[cwburnett 1,809]

4 minutes ago, DJJose said:

Thanks for asking.

The features I care about are:

Your list reads about like mine, actually! We're not there yet today, but I'll tell you what I know...

1) Photo scenic textures with seasonal variations including 3D trees.

Photo, yes. Seasonal, no - other than snow. I suspect tree seasonal variation isn't far away, though I did try setting the date to November and didn't see any variation as of now. I need to try this in more places. But, the trees are pretty good...you can see lots of trees in the PNG videos I made.

2) Beautiful water that changes colors depending on the region that I want to fly. Waves that move with the wind and change size. 

Waves, yes. The waves are awesome, except that rivers appear to be treated like the ocean, so if there are 30 knot winds at EGLC, the Thames is rocking...

Colors? Yes in some places. There are actually quite a few places where they've done a great job including the ability to see beneath the surface. Where it's done, it is beautiful, but it is a manual process, so slow. The materials are there for 3PDs to do a better job than in P3D with this for coastal airports, etc.

3) Lots of payware quality airports.

We only have about 5 - or 25 if you count the hand crafted airports, which are of good, but not great quality. I have FB KDEN, Orbx EGLC, KTIW and KORS so far. FB is working on the next one now, either KIAD or KMSP. I'm sure others aren't far behind, but they're not there today. The default airports are pretty servicable from a texture perspective, but a lot of the terminals look like 6 story office buildings/hotels, and some of the ramps are missing jetways. Better than default P3D, but not payware quality.

4) AI traffic with liveries with default ATC control.

Not in good shape right now, I don't see a reason why we don't get good AI, and the AI/ATC interface is marginally better than in P3D.

5) Realistic ATC for VFR & IFR operations.

It is better than default P3D, but that's all that can be said for it.

6) Real weather that is dynamic, historic, and user defined.

Right now there's no historic. Live works except for winds in the US, which is apparently a bug that's being fixed as we speak. User defined works, but needs some enhancement to deliver the level of capability we've become accustomed to with ActiveSky.

7) Controller support for yoke, pedals, throttle, and GoFlight modules.

I haven't had any problems with any of these things, but I don't have GoFlight modules. I personally find the controller setup to be better and more flexible than P3D; there are many more assignable controls and swapping profiles is easier than P3D, including controller-specific profiles.

8 Ground Services by FSDT.

The default ground services are not terrible, and certainly better than the default P3D ground services (I kid...), but I think we'll all be happy when GSX comes online for MSFS.

9) 3rd party airplanes such as A2A, Milviz, or PMDG.

I hear this and none exist so far... but they're all coding away, so we hear...

10) Reasonable loading times, good fps, and stability.

I've been reasonably happy in this respect. I am in a flight faster than P3D. I've never crashed, unlike P3D. FPS is tricky...the FPS to graphics quality ratio is night and day from P3D. However, as soon as you see the sim on ultra, and then realize you need to back some things down, you'll be disappointed - even though it still looks materially better than P3D. I can run somewhere between 2k and 4k on my RTX2070 without hitting 100% utilization. The CPU needs more optimization and I've actually been working on that the last couple days. I lock at 30 fps and it looks great and isn't challenged by airports or dense scenery - that's a huge difference between this app and P3D. However, every so often, right now, MSFS appears to work on a whole batch of scenery rendering at once and spikes all of my cores at once, and this can yield 5 seconds of stutters, then it subsides. The good news is it occurs most often in cruise when this happens, and not on takeoff or approach. I hope that this is something that can be optimized in the future, because otherwise it is going to be a big barrier for some people. It is worth nothing that "people" didn't observe this in the last beta before release, so there's good reason to believe it can be fixed as easily as it was broken.

It's worth trying out for $1 even if you plan to keep your existing sim around for the foreseeable future. I still have my P3Dv5 with all the trimmings waiting for me, but I haven't launched it in a month. This bumming around in the 208 to places I could never have hoped for in P3D is just too much fun right now, even with the problems outlined above...

If you're inclined, you can see a dumbed down (1080p) version of some of what I've been doing in MSFS here https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCuhNl1CjoODTxhxQugbUaNg/videos

 

 

 

[CFIJose 5,485]

19 minutes ago, cwburnett said:

Your list reads about like mine, actually! We're not there yet today, but I'll tell you what I know...

1) Photo scenic textures with seasonal variations including 3D trees.

Photo, yes. Seasonal, no - other than snow. I suspect tree seasonal variation isn't far away, though I did try setting the date to November and didn't see any variation as of now. I need to try this in more places. But, the trees are pretty good...you can see lots of trees in the PNG videos I made.

2) Beautiful water that changes colors depending on the region that I want to fly. Waves that move with the wind and change size. 

Waves, yes. The waves are awesome, except that rivers appear to be treated like the ocean, so if there are 30 knot winds at EGLC, the Thames is rocking...

Colors? Yes in some places. There are actually quite a few places where they've done a great job including the ability to see beneath the surface. Where it's done, it is beautiful, but it is a manual process, so slow. The materials are there for 3PDs to do a better job than in P3D with this for coastal airports, etc.

3) Lots of payware quality airports.

We only have about 5 - or 25 if you count the hand crafted airports, which are of good, but not great quality. I have FB KDEN, Orbx EGLC, KTIW and KORS so far. FB is working on the next one now, either KIAD or KMSP. I'm sure others aren't far behind, but they're not there today. The default airports are pretty servicable from a texture perspective, but a lot of the terminals look like 6 story office buildings/hotels, and some of the ramps are missing jetways. Better than default P3D, but not payware quality.

4) AI traffic with liveries with default ATC control.

Not in good shape right now, I don't see a reason why we don't get good AI, and the AI/ATC interface is marginally better than in P3D.

5) Realistic ATC for VFR & IFR operations.

It is better than default P3D, but that's all that can be said for it.

6) Real weather that is dynamic, historic, and user defined.

Right now there's no historic. Live works except for winds in the US, which is apparently a bug that's being fixed as we speak. User defined works, but needs some enhancement to deliver the level of capability we've become accustomed to with ActiveSky.

7) Controller support for yoke, pedals, throttle, and GoFlight modules.

I haven't had any problems with any of these things, but I don't have GoFlight modules. I personally find the controller setup to be better and more flexible than P3D; there are many more assignable controls and swapping profiles is easier than P3D, including controller-specific profiles.

8 Ground Services by FSDT.

The default ground services are not terrible, and certainly better than the default P3D ground services (I kid...), but I think we'll all be happy when GSX comes online for MSFS.

9) 3rd party airplanes such as A2A, Milviz, or PMDG.

I hear this and none exist so far... but they're all coding away, so we hear...

10) Reasonable loading times, good fps, and stability.

I've been reasonably happy in this respect. I am in a flight faster than P3D. I've never crashed, unlike P3D. FPS is tricky...the FPS to graphics quality ratio is night and day from P3D. However, as soon as you see the sim on ultra, and then realize you need to back some things down, you'll be disappointed - even though it still looks materially better than P3D. I can run somewhere between 2k and 4k on my RTX2070 without hitting 100% utilization. The CPU needs more optimization and I've actually been working on that the last couple days. I lock at 30 fps and it looks great and isn't challenged by airports or dense scenery - that's a huge difference between this app and P3D. However, every so often, right now, MSFS appears to work on a whole batch of scenery rendering at once and spikes all of my cores at once, and this can yield 5 seconds of stutters, then it subsides. The good news is it occurs most often in cruise when this happens, and not on takeoff or approach. I hope that this is something that can be optimized in the future, because otherwise it is going to be a big barrier for some people. It is worth nothing that "people" didn't observe this in the last beta before release, so there's good reason to believe it can be fixed as easily as it was broken.

It's worth trying out for $1 even if you plan to keep your existing sim around for the foreseeable future. I still have my P3Dv5 with all the trimmings waiting for me, but I haven't launched it in a month. This bumming around in the 208 to places I could never have hoped for in P3D is just too much fun right now, even with the problems outlined above...

If you're inclined, you can see a dumbed down (1080p) version of some of what I've been doing in MSFS here https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCuhNl1CjoODTxhxQugbUaNg/videos

 

 

 

I tried it the day before it was released. 😀

It only lasted a day on my SSD due to poor performance and because it's missing most of the features I want in a sim. Performance being among the most important. I'm not going to buy a 4K dollar computer just to chase FPS. I've been through this too many times before.

When my CPU dies, I'll upgrade and try again, but it will probably be years before that happens.

BTW, your videos are very enjoyable. Thanks and I'm glad that you are able to enjoy the new sim!

[cwburnett 1,809]

1 minute ago, DJJose said:

I tried it the day before it was released. 😀

It only lasted a day on my SSD due to poor performance and because it's missing most of the features I want in a sim. Performance being among the most important. I'm not going to buy a 4K dollar computer just to chase FPS. I've been through this too many times before.

When my CPU dies, I'll upgrade and try again, but it will probably be years before that happens.

BTW, your videos are very enjoyable. Thanks and I'm glad that you are able to enjoy the new sim!

Understood. I built my machine for $1k, and probably the only change I'd make if I were building it today instead of last September would be an i5-10600k or maybe a 3700x, but that wouldn't change the price.

[CFIJose 5,485]

2 minutes ago, cwburnett said:

Understood. I built my machine for $1k, and probably the only change I'd make if I were building it today instead of last September would be an i5-10600k or maybe a 3700x, but that wouldn't change the price.

1K sounds about right for CPU, RAM, Board, Cooler, and M2 drive. Maybe $1200 US.

[mriviecc 0]

Thus far I'd like to see a bettter nav log. For instance, VOR frequencies and other information relative that station arent displayed on the nav log while flying. 

[environmental_ice 238]

ATC addon for starts for sure! Ill make due with this default Airbus Until a better payware version comes along. Oh and air Hauler. I do not want to pay a subscription for that On Air utility....

[Noel 4,504]

How about using the bloomin' mouse-right click for a drop-down menu?  So useful, so basic, so old.   I can't believe it isn't there, perhaps it can be setup?  

[stewartforgie 44]

Accurate oil refineries would be good. its a tad annoying to see circular office blocks where oil storage tanks should be and why aren't there any cooling towers? I would have thought they would come in handy when flying VFR!

[udidwht 133]

On 8/22/2020 at 4:16 AM, DJJose said:

For those of you who have FS2020 working smoothly and feel that there's something missing, what is it?

I was one of the unfortunate ones who could not get decent performance with my i7 2600K, Titan Pascal, 32GIGS of RAM, SSD, and 1080P monitor.

Does FS2020 has what was missing on all previous sims, or just another platform that needs a lot of work and 3rd party support?

Jose

What type of performance were you getting?

[mazex 419]

On 8/22/2020 at 4:39 PM, johncott said:

It looks like the airport in the 5th biggest city in Spain is pixelated out on bing aerial view maps, therefore no airport in MSFS. There are a few other major city airports that have the same issue. Stuttgart in Germany was another. Somebody posted a list somewhere, not sure if it was here or on another flight sim site. I will stick with P3DV5 for the foreseeable future.

It seems that they do the pixelation for military air bases and omit them from MSFS. Stuttgart has military units using it - so could that be the problem. Maybe the Spanish one as well?

[mazex 419]

On 8/22/2020 at 4:39 PM, johncott said:

It looks like the airport in the 5th biggest city in Spain is pixelated out on bing aerial view maps, therefore no airport in MSFS. There are a few other major city airports that have the same issue. Stuttgart in Germany was another. Somebody posted a list somewhere, not sure if it was here or on another flight sim site. I will stick with P3DV5 for the foreseeable future.

Good and constructive thread. It would be nice to try to compile all proposals and have them in a voting post?

Things I miss - even though I truly love MSFS version 1.0.0.0

* VR - it's coming and it is essential for us that have used it on quality VR sets. I got hooked using the HTC Vive but with the Valve Index it really works where I can read MFDs and intruments in DCS etc.

* More missions and challenges. It would be really nice to have things like fspassengers, Air Hauler etc to add some purpose to the flying when we are done sightseeing...

* Giliders - with the advanced wind and thermal model in MSFS this would be very interesting. And it is very good for creating "missions" and purpose for a flight. Doing a 500km triangle course with 20 multiplayer pilots really rises the pulse! And you need your flying skills and tactical thinking every minute of the flight - not just taking off and landing. 

* Helicopters - coming and that will be interesting. Maybe because I don't know how to fly one IRL 😉 Good for creating interesting "missions" as well.

* Damage modelling. Yes - is not the norm in civilian flight sims and would take a lot of effort building the models. But to see the undercarriage break of and then the left wing teared off hitting a building when you miss that landing is interesting. Not necessary in any way, but who would press escape to not view what happens until the aircraft finally comes to a stop and actually did not break up completely or explode?

* CFS4 (modern setting to not have to do the whole world in 1943 even though it would be fun). To create a purpose and excitement to a well done flight plan, there is nothing like enemy AA and fighters trying to stop you from a complex weapon launch at the end, traveling at 700 kts at 100 feet... Even more so if it's multiplayer naturally.

* Graphics - well, it is incredible as it is, but if possible - the following would make it even better:

1. Powerlines and train lines. Yes - with all the stuff on the list they are probably in the pipeline but they are nice for VFR navigation.
2. More churches would be great if possible. This is a hard one as they are very non generic so I understand that it's hard for the AI to do them, but churches are also important for VFR navigation / turn points for gliders etc. The problem is that they are rather significant landmarks so a generic church with a gothic roof might look very wrong for a slender 1860 church... And without photogrammetry it is really hard to know what a church really looks like in 3D.
3. Smoke from smoke stacks. Yes - a true FPS killer but smoke from industries would really look nice and add to the immersion.
4. Better source material from Bing... The quality of Googles satellite imagery is generally much better than Bing. But the AI does a great job anyway with what it has to work with.

Edited August 24, 2020 by mazex

[mazex 419]

1 hour ago, mazex said:

It seems that they do the pixelation for military air bases and omit them from MSFS. Stuttgart has military units using it - so could that be the problem. Maybe the Spanish one as well?

Hmm - looking at Swedish AFB:s that does not seem true in Bing (pixeallation of military AFBs). I had a look at F7 Såtenäs in Sweden - where interestingly enough there are two F-18:s on the day of the satellite photo 🙂

Have a look here - isn't that two F-18s and a Gripen on that line - and is that a Spitfire next to the Hornets? Finnish AF on visit?

https://www.bing.com/maps?osid=4f0e4ede-76b9-4520-bf53-d4b1928e94b0&cp=58.4339~12.699377&lvl=18&style=h&v=2&sV=2&form=S00027

Zoom left and then up from that location - They have the Swedish AF historic flight on that base as well - so an interesting line up of old aircraft on the others lines this day - Two Viggens, a J-35 Draken, J-34 Hawker Hunter, J-32 Lansen, J-29 Tunnan, J-28 DH Vampire and more... Feels like and airshow is about to happen? 

 

[fluffyflops 1,858]

an airbus that works no matter the "depth"

 

 

 

 

Edited August 24, 2020 by fluffyflops

[V1-Rotate 15]

• Better ATC
  Follow correct IFR procedures!!!
  It makes serious mistakes, even forgets you when they are supposed to give you a vector for landing.
  Issuing the command to live traffic that they are 20000ft above assigned altitude!!!
  Follow descend profiles.
  Voice to text for Pilots.
• Fix wrong airports layouts.
• Lens exposure during night is wrong, aircraft lights are not lighting correct.
• Make able to type in the MFDs using keyboard.
• Make sure you can adjust controllers sensitivity
• Make able to pop up instruments to 2nd screen

Edited August 24, 2020 by V2-Rotate