Have you thought about Tracker XP? https://store.x-plane.org/Tracker-XP-v3_p_124.html

It's very low cost, there's even a free demo version, all you need is a cheap webcam and Bob the designer will give you all the friendly advice you could ever wish for.

Best....  Phil

 

17 hours ago, mSparks said:

Ive got a pplh, about 80 hours in my log book and last time I looked some 2000 hours in xplane VR.

 

Has nothing to do with simulator setup preferences...using additional devices like ipads and kneeboards...you know, the things that "real pilots" use that can't be seen when using VR.

 

17 hours ago, mSparks said:

Not sure that alone qualifies me as an expert per se, but fairly sure you will be very hard pressed to find anyone with similar experience.

 

It doesn't qualify you as an expert...only it shows me that "you" really like "your" setup.

 

18 hours ago, mSparks said:

You are of course perfectly entitled to continue ignoring it since you are so happy with your current setup.

 

Again you fail to realize the purpose of this thread, telling the OP our preferences / experiences with VR vs large screen....not "debate" which is better and advance our (so called) expert opinions as the only possible setup that makes sense for everyone.

 

18 hours ago, mSparks said:

 

VR controls are a solved problem (probably more so than non VR controls)

...maybe for you, but in the real world, it does not suffice for everyone. Accept it and move on....we get it...you prefer VR.

 

5 hours ago, FlyBaby said:

Again you fail to realize the purpose of this thread, telling the OP our preferences

so what are you saying?

It sounds like you are saying that having tried xp in VR recently your preference is to flight sim with a keyboard and mouse?

5 hours ago, FlyBaby said:

shows me that "you" really like "your" setup.

I still have a few thousand euros worth of kit on the shopping list.

Id quite like to build up a couple of physical cockpits to go with the aircraft I fly the most. they are much cheaper for VR because it only needs the switches and dials in the right place, and no complicated screens or gauges.

VR controllers and voice are OK - much nicer experience than a keyboard but physical still wins.

But hey, if you really prefer simming with a keyboard they even got that covered

The "big deal" for VR over something like trackir, is being able to look over your shoulder to check when you are lined up with final, along with generally being able to properly observe the world around you.

Edited August 31, 20205 yr by mSparks

I actually switched back to 2D after a while using VR because it was such an effort to get working and required every free port on my PC (HDMI, sensors, USB). Also, the low resolution and dark display made it less appealing that my bright PC display.

However, that was the original Oculus Rift 2, which is now sat gathering dust in a box. I'll pick up a newer device at some point again, possibly the HP Reverb, but at the moment, for me, VR was just an expensive gimmick that got tiring quickly

1 hour ago, tonywob said:

Oculus Rift 2

Do you mean DK2?

The reverb G2 is looking really nice, but if it ends up requiring windows I'll jump on the index instead.

did you see the oculus change recently? (its not just the price of devices holding VR back) 

All future unreleased Oculus devices will require a Facebook account, even if you already have an Oculus account

https://support.oculus.com/424208161507635/

 

Edited August 31, 20205 yr by mSparks

2 hours ago, mSparks said:

Do you mean DK2?

Yep, the second version they made.

 

 

2 hours ago, mSparks said:

All future unreleased Oculus devices will require a Facebook account, even if you already have an Oculus account

Guess that's me out then 🙂

8 hours ago, mSparks said:

The "big deal" for VR over something like trackir, is being able to look over your shoulder to check when you are lined up with final, along with generally being able to properly observe the world around you.

Huh? It's very possible to look back over your shoulder with TrackIR. It's why TrackIR is so popular with combat flight sim pilots, you can "Check Six" and see if anyone's on your tail.

To make the movement more comfortable, you set a response curve so the tracking motion increases as you move your head further from the center view. You can look directly behind you by only looking at your shoulder to avoid neck strain. Works the same way for checking runway alignment in the pattern for a turn to the base leg.

Personally, I've held out from VR for a couple of reasons. I'm not concerned much about controls because I have just about everything I need under my fingers with a TM Warthog set. But I want want more resolution and a wireless headset, which at the moment seem mutually incompatible.

Also, I do many flights in FSEconomy that are from an hour to two hours long. I can't imagine wearing the headset for that amount of time. I'd probably use it just for takeoff and landing, then switch to 2D for the cruise. I don't know if I'd enjoy mixing both modes like that. I'm sure it would be fun for zooming down the Grand Canyon or buzzing through buildings in downtown Seattle, but I doubt I'd do that kind of thing more than a few times.

I'd be more likely to buy a VR unit for a combat flight sim or sci-fi space fighter game, because "missions" usually don't take that long. But nothing has really tweaked my interest in that area lately. 

 

28 minutes ago, Paraffin said:

Huh? It's very possible to look back over your shoulder with TrackIR

how many monitors does that require?

or do you mean "change the view of the monitor in front of you to look behind you"?

33 minutes ago, Paraffin said:

But I want want more resolution and a wireless headset

thats the sweet spot, but the trouble is the bandwidth, wireless sucks because it is so high latency (often 200ms or more) to cope with the interference.

Id love wireless, but no way I will trust a wireless headset any time soon.

36 minutes ago, Paraffin said:

can't imagine wearing the headset for that amount of time

PSVR is great for longer wear, also easy to take on an off, but lacking in lots of other areas (like no windows support...).

39 minutes ago, Paraffin said:

I'd probably use it just for takeoff and landing, then switch to 2D for the cruise. I don't know if I'd enjoy mixing both modes like that.

depends how attentive you are being, for longer flights I tend to monitor a flight with the headset off (and do other things on the computer) then put it on if anything needs attention.

4 hours ago, tonywob said:

Yep, the second version they made.

 

they have come a long way since then. but there is at least one more generation to go before there is nothing to complain about.

7 hours ago, mSparks said:

how many monitors does that require?

or do you mean "change the view of the monitor in front of you to look behind you"?

Of course I meant change the view of the monitor in front of you, and I'm sure you know what I meant. It's not as immersive as being in a surround 3D environment, but then I don't have to sprain my neck to look behind me either. 🙂

For those of us staying with a 2D environment and physical flight controls and knob panels -- call it a minimal home cockpit setup -- you don't need the old-school multi-monitor setups. There are huge ultra-wide curved gaming monitors that replace the old setups. Which I don't own, but might invest in, once I make the next CPU/GPU upgrade to support pushing all those pixels.

 

6 hours ago, Paraffin said:

Of course I meant change the view of the monitor in front of you, and I'm sure you know what I meant. It's not as immersive as being in a surround 3D environment, but then I don't have to sprain my neck to look behind me either. 🙂

Not really "of course", I never understood how that works, do you have to turn your head to the right and look left then? I cant imagine that being remotely comfortable or feeling natural.

6 hours ago, Paraffin said:

and physical flight controls and knob panels

these work best in VR for flight sim.

In the helo I almost never take my hands of the cyclic and collective throttle.

In the 744 I use joystick and mouse.

VR controllers are "second best" to realistic physical controls for the most part, but if I had them I would definately appreciate them in the 744.

6 hours ago, Paraffin said:

There are huge ultra-wide curved gaming monitors that replace the old setups

I bought three new monitors and built them in a roughly 160 degree panorama (I forget exactly - i did measure and set up the fov) roughly a week before I got VR working.

They make a huge improvement. I used them every day for at least an hour - for that week before I got VR.

I dont think Ive done a "full screen" flight with them since.

XP has great tools to configure multiple monitors, and I would recommend that over one big one, if you do get a big curved one you will need an XP professional licence to configure the distortion properly.

If going that route youd be better with multiple projectors on a whole room curved screen. Or just go VR, which actually works better for a lot less cost.

Edited September 1, 20205 yr by mSparks

Had trakir for years with FSX, hardly used it,. now with Vulcan and Xcamera i never fly without it. As for  VR, be interesting to see what affect it has on peoples eyes a few years down teh track, cant afford to loose any more, I also have fixed view once im in the flight so i can remove headset.

Edited September 1, 20205 yr by mjrhealth

4 hours ago, mjrhealth said:

be interesting to see what affect it has on peoples eyes a few years down teh track

from studies Ive seen eye strain & pain is slightly less than staring at a monitor (since you move your eyes more). There is lots of absolutely baseless FUD that gets around like any new technology (but those nutjobs mostly moved onto burning 5g towers now)

There have however been some really nice innovations in VR and AR for fixing vision over the years.

From repairing lazy eyes (there is a great CCC presentation on this if you want me to find it) to using AR as a kind of advanced digital glasses even for people with near total blindness.

7 hours ago, mSparks said:

from studies Ive seen eye strain & pain is slightly less than staring at a monitor (since you move your eyes more). There is lots of absolutely baseless FUD that gets around like any new technology (but those nutjobs mostly moved onto burning 5g towers now)

There have however been some really nice innovations in VR and AR for fixing vision over the years.

From repairing lazy eyes (there is a great CCC presentation on this if you want me to find it) to using AR as a kind of advanced digital glasses even for people with near total blindness.

With TrackIR, you move your head a lot, zooming in, with 2 monitors checking flight plan, eyes never focused at any one point, that only happens when you turn it off, or running one screen. The work I do has lots of new tech have to deal with it everyday, makes life easier in some regards but trying to fix stuff, pain in the butt, most faults are usualy firmware, I dont have much confidence in it just have to live with it, hoprfully upgrade my 4790K which is doing fine to 6 core intell soon, wonder what issues that will bring

11 hours ago, mjrhealth said:

eyes never focused at any one point

screens perform worse because your eyes are always focused 2 or 3 feet in front of you.

VR lenses focus the image much further away so the eyes spend their time relaxed (a bit like looking through binoculars backwards)

So anytime you see a "VR makes you focus inches away from your face" that allows comments, please slap them with a wet fish and tell them to engage their brain before opening their mouth/typing on their keyboard.

Edited September 2, 20205 yr by mSparks

Probably upcoming HP Reverb G2 also for FS2020. As HP is a retarded company, I'd happily also buy some other openXR compliant device.