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Yosemite Valley scenery - photogrammetry creation

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4 minutes ago, VFRflier said:

I have 30TB of finished ortho (1/3 ARC & ZL19) and had plans for more before the MSFS 2020 launch, now I'm just waiting on better DEMs to see which direction to go.  Due to the simplicity of the MSFS 2020 approach I really want to save the time and just cruise my favorite areas with better geography.

That's impressive (and exhausting to think about) - I thought I was going nuts with 6TB - hehe.  Hopefully there will come a time when you can leverage that into this sim.  I've also enjoyed just being able to fly around with the amazing stuff that's already in by default.  The procedural trees and grass and the superior lighting model makes even the more modest terrain mesh and ortho look really great, especially when you're on the ground.  

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The "Tutorial" doesn't show how to actually save the model so it has different LOD levels. Is the tutorial like this available? I would like to do a low LOD for what I'm currently doing (Greater Toronto Area), but I have no idea how to do that. It looks like documentation is not available and I could not find any tutorials on that. I could capture lower LOD from Google Maps, or decimate mesh in Blender and get a rough approximation maybe, but how would I export the model so it has different LOD levels? And how would it work with the same textures from the high LOD?  

Also, I do have a problem with baking textures. I left textures unbaked, as all my experiments with baking textures according to guides keep ending up with inferior look and much larger file size with the same FPS hit as hundreds of texture files. 8192x8192 baked texture look very pixelated with this scenery size, and 16384x16384 produces packages that are 3 times larger, and still have weird artifacts.

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9 minutes ago, romandesign said:

The "Tutorial" doesn't show how to actually save the model so it has different LOD levels. Is the tutorial like this available? I would like to do a low LOD for what I'm currently doing (Greater Toronto Area), but I have no idea how to do that. It looks like documentation is not available and I could not find any tutorials on that. I could capture lower LOD from Google Maps, or decimate mesh in Blender and get a rough approximation maybe, but how would I export the model so it has different LOD levels? And how would it work with the same textures from the high LOD?  

Also, I do have a problem with baking textures. I left textures unbaked, as all my experiments with baking textures according to guides keep ending up with inferior look and much larger file size with the same FPS hit as hundreds of texture files. 8192x8192 baked texture look very pixelated with this scenery size, and 16384x16384 produces packages that are 3 times larger, and still have weird artifacts.

The supplied SDK docs are a little sparse on this, but I did manage to find a spec somewhere (cant find it now, will have to do a search again).  Basically it involves modifying the .xml file that you create for the model (the one with the GUID number)

It normally looks like this:

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8" ?>
<ModelInfo version="1.1" guid="{ec6939bf-ef77-4cdd-ad31-d310ea0d42d2}">
</ModelInfo>

To add the LODs (assuming you've already built them) into the sim, you add the following <LODS> ... </LODS> section.  It goes from highest detail object to lowest and the first number refers to the percentage of screen space that a bounding sphere would occupy.

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8" ?>
<ModelInfo version="1.1" guid="{ec6939bf-ef77-4cdd-ad31-d310ea0d42d2}">
    <LODS>
    <LOD minSize="40" modelFile="DevilsTower_LOD00.gltf"/>
    <LOD minSize="10" modelFile="DevilsTower_LOD01.gltf"/>
    <LOD modelFile="DevilsTower_LOD02.gltf"/>
    </LODS>
</ModelInfo>

In the above example, if the object is close enough to takeup 40% of screen space or larger (I believe it is measuring screen HEIGHT btw) then the LOD00 is used.  If its between 40% and 10% it uses LOD01 and any smaller it uses LOD02.

You can use as many or as few as you need.

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36 minutes ago, romandesign said:

The "Tutorial" doesn't show how to actually save the model so it has different LOD levels. Is the tutorial like this available? I would like to do a low LOD for what I'm currently doing (Greater Toronto Area), but I have no idea how to do that. It looks like documentation is not available and I could not find any tutorials on that. I could capture lower LOD from Google Maps, or decimate mesh in Blender and get a rough approximation maybe, but how would I export the model so it has different LOD levels? And how would it work with the same textures from the high LOD?  

Also, I do have a problem with baking textures. I left textures unbaked, as all my experiments with baking textures according to guides keep ending up with inferior look and much larger file size with the same FPS hit as hundreds of texture files. 8192x8192 baked texture look very pixelated with this scenery size, and 16384x16384 produces packages that are 3 times larger, and still have weird artifacts.

Some guy on reddit did a tutorial on how to setup LODs after I displayed my superior understanding of real time technology there. He just does not know how to get people to pay attention and spread the word, so I will take the aggressive marketing over for him.

You need:

1. My genius idea on how to rip LODs directly from Google maps, something second winners usually do not think of.

2. His tutorial on how to include LODs in FS2020: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQDMSeHDCKo

The only issue I noticed is that they do not have dithered LODs, which is which is what Unreal Engine does for example to avoid the next LOD instantly popping in. Dithered LODs uses a fade blending transition which makes LOD transitions smoother. In his video, the LODs pop in, which is quite bad actually.

https://couchlearn.com/fading-between-lods-in-unreal-engine-4/#:~:text=5 Conclusion-,Explanation,compared to non dithered meshes.

Edited by M-Air Bush Deliveries Ltd

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22 minutes ago, romandesign said:

The "Tutorial" doesn't show how to actually save the model so it has different LOD levels. Is the tutorial like this available? I would like to do a low LOD for what I'm currently doing (Greater Toronto Area), but I have no idea how to do that. It looks like documentation is not available and I could not find any tutorials on that. I could capture lower LOD from Google Maps, or decimate mesh in Blender and get a rough approximation maybe, but how would I export the model so it has different LOD levels? And how would it work with the same textures from the high LOD?  

Also, I do have a problem with baking textures. I left textures unbaked, as all my experiments with baking textures according to guides keep ending up with inferior look and much larger file size with the same FPS hit as hundreds of texture files. 8192x8192 baked texture look very pixelated with this scenery size, and 16384x16384 produces packages that are 3 times larger, and still have weird artifacts.

As for the second part, you should probably be breaking up your object into several smaller groups anyway.  If you are going to use LOD you dont want to do it simultaneously for the entire city or else the entire thing will change resolution at once.

Once you've broken it up, you could keep the highest level without doing a texture bake if you feel the performance is sufficient for you.  Each LOD is a separate object and can use textures in whichever way you desire - you can bake for lower res LODs and keep it unbaked for the full res if you want.  You probably want to find a way to bake down just for performance reasons, but if your rig can handle it and it works better for you not to, then all the power to ya.

BTW, it looks like our lurker friend did something useful and posted a link that describes what I was saying in more detail.

Here's the link in case you have him on ignore

 

 

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7 minutes ago, M-Air Bush Deliveries Ltd said:

Your lurker friend dug out another issue which you would have never solved or noticed, VFX: LODs in FS2020 are not using dithered LODs. The pop ins will be really hard on the eye. See UE4 for what dithered LODs are.

https://couchlearn.com/fading-between-lods-in-unreal-engine-4/#:~:text=5 Conclusion-,Explanation,compared to non dithered meshes.

Thanks for stating the obvious.  We're relying on that for realtime playback on LED projection on certain sci-fi features you may have heard of.  Welcome to 2020.  UE5 is even better. 

You seem kinda desperate here.  Do you need a job?

BTW, Unreal engine is also designed for a much smaller and manageable asset tree than the world that a flight sim has to deal with.  Its apples and oranges... but you already knew that right?

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1 minute ago, M-Air Bush Deliveries Ltd said:

Lack of dithered LODs was not so obvious to you, like all the other stuff, was not now...

I need this thing to work properly in a few months when I get back to the game.

Still adorable 🙂

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2 minutes ago, VFXSimmer said:

Still adorable 🙂

I know. Anyways, I think we have everything covered on how to import Google maps models. Wish you guys luck. Will occasionally bump this thread to point all the amateurs here into the right direction. 

Now hop hop, to work with you! Embrace my knowledge haha!!!!

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Thanks, appreciate the bumps, you've given my free download a lot of advertisement.  See you in a few months.  Stay adorable, and keep reading those websites on 3D & realtime and reporting back what you find for all our sakes.

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2 hours ago, VFXSimmer said:

Thanks, appreciate the bumps, you've given my free download a lot of advertisement.  See you in a few months.  Stay adorable, and keep reading those websites on 3D & realtime and reporting back what you find for all our sakes.

....and by all means, stay humble.....(smh)

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On 9/14/2020 at 1:54 PM, VFXSimmer said:

As for the second part, you should probably be breaking up your object into several smaller groups anyway.  If you are going to use LOD you dont want to do it simultaneously for the entire city or else the entire thing will change resolution at once.

Once you've broken it up, you could keep the highest level without doing a texture bake if you feel the performance is sufficient for you.  Each LOD is a separate object and can use textures in whichever way you desire - you can bake for lower res LODs and keep it unbaked for the full res if you want.  You probably want to find a way to bake down just for performance reasons, but if your rig can handle it and it works better for you not to, then all the power to ya.

Until I get 3080 GPU my system is totally inadequate with GTX1660 and 4K screen. I tested and I could see no FPS difference between baked and unbaked textures with my sceneries which are size of maybe 10 city blocks or so. So not the entire city but not small at all. But the package file size was 2-3 times larger. So I don't see the point of baking for what I'm doing. Now that LODs are working for me (via decimate modifiers in Blender), FPS impact from far is negligeble. Based on this totally inadequate GPU regular FPS are around 28-30 FPS, with my scenery in view not worse than 28 FPS and possibly undistinguishable from other directions (FPS difference on different headings varies more than difference in my scenery in view or not), closer to scenery getting 26 FPS and extremely close down to 20-24 FPS. With a better GPU or 1080p/1440p resolution FPS impact should be minimal. 


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 CYKZ  Toronto Buttonville Municipal Airport [Toronto Canada]
 CNC3  Brampton-Caledon Airport [Toronto Canada]
Available now at my website FlightSimulation.RomanDesign.ca +4 Free Scenery Packs

CYOW-Ottawa-sig.jpgCYKZ-Toronto-Buttonville-sig.jpgCNC3-Brampton-sig.jpg

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46 minutes ago, romandesign said:

Until I get 3080 GPU my system is totally inadequate with GTX1660 and 4K screen. I tested and I could see no FPS difference between baked and unbaked textures with my sceneries which are size of maybe 10 city blocks or so. So not the entire city but not small at all. But the package file size was 2-3 times larger. So I don't see the point of baking for what I'm doing. Now that LODs are working for me (via decimate modifiers in Blender), FPS impact from far is negligeble. Based on this totally inadequate GPU regular FPS are around 28-30 FPS, with my scenery in view not worse than 28 FPS and possibly undistinguishable from other directions (FPS difference on different headings varies more than difference in my scenery in view or not), closer to scenery getting 26 FPS and extremely close down to 20-24 FPS. With a better GPU or 1080p/1440p resolution FPS impact should be minimal. 

That's great to hear.  As with all of these things there is a difference between "theory" (as in you SHOULD do these things for performance, etc, etc), and "practice" (as in when you're adding in a small area, the effects of the extra work is negligible).  With all of the differences in hardware, and some of the insane capabilities of modern graphics hardware, you can probably get away with a lot of practices that the experts would say is a no-no.  And if it looks better (I agree that the baking process has a ton of challenges), then its a win win.

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For those who don't follow /r/FS2020Creation regularly, @VFXSimmer has posted a version 0.2 update there that looks phenomenal:

 

 

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Rob Jones, Lead Developer🆆🆃Working Title Simulations
(Except where stated, all opinions are mine, not those of my employer.)

 

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1 hour ago, kaosfere said:

For those who don't follow /r/FS2020Creation regularly, @VFXSimmer has posted a version 0.2 update there that looks phenomenal:

 

 

Thanks for the bump kaosfere!

Yes, this is the first step in a total rework.  I've upgraded El Capitan with a far more efficient model.  Its actually lower resolution as far as pure triangles go, but I've baked in a texture map from an ultra high-res version of the photogrammetry from google.  I also used that to create normal maps which give the 'appearance' of a much higher res model.  For those who care I gave a full summary of all the steps involved on the FS2020Creation site.

The good news is that performance is much better AND you can actually fly right up to it and it still holds up.

The biggest thing still missing is collision detection.  I've tried everything available with the documents that have been released with no luck.  Need more complete SDK docs to go further in this area.

The process is pretty labor intensive so I'll be releasing other sections of the valley as I complete them.  Half Dome is next, followed by Yosemite Falls.

Enjoy!

 

p.s. there are a few versions of the scenery available - one with a 16k map and another with 4k.  I'd love for people to try them out and report how their systems handle it to help strategize the VRAM budget for the complete final version.

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26 minutes ago, VFXSimmer said:

Thanks for the bump kaosfere!

Yes, this is the first step in a total rework.  I've upgraded El Capitan with a far more efficient model.  Its actually lower resolution as far as pure triangles go, but I've baked in a texture map from an ultra high-res version of the photogrammetry from google.  I also used that to create normal maps which give the 'appearance' of a much higher res model.  For those who care I gave a full summary of all the steps involved on the FS2020Creation site.

The good news is that performance is much better AND you can actually fly right up to it and it still holds up.

The biggest thing still missing is collision detection.  I've tried everything available with the documents that have been released with no luck.  Need more complete SDK docs to go further in this area.

The process is pretty labor intensive so I'll be releasing other sections of the valley as I complete them.  Half Dome is next, followed by Yosemite Falls.

Enjoy!

 

p.s. there are a few versions of the scenery available - one with a 16k map and another with 4k.  I'd love for people to try them out and report how their systems handle it to help strategize the VRAM budget for the complete final version.

Dang.....been so far behind on you guys doing the voodoo you do.....

Mr. Simmer....looks like I need to do another photo op?


Regards,

Steve Dra

Download my paints here at Avsim by clicking here

9Slp0L.jpg 

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