4 hours ago, Dominique_K said:

Agreed.

Still, the unprecedented proliferation of addons might be the sign of a new modding literacy in the simming world. It reminds me of wild mushrooms appearing on my lawn after some heavy rain. People who apparently were not simmers before, add stuff which are not so bad at all. Two-odd months after release !

Critics speaks  from their high chair of a closed environment, amateur modders show exactly the contrary, a sandbox open to anybody willing to have a try. 

It also says to me that once the SDK is fully functional and judging by the quality of the free offerings, any paid add ons are going to have to be exceptional, really exceptional.

2 minutes ago, wthomas33065 said:

One of those rules is regarding the use of Google photogrammetry.  Freeware developers can and do use it at will.  In fact most of the best looking freeware out there is due solely to the use of Google assets.  While it's unlikely that Google will send a cease and desist letter to the small freeware developer.  However if a commercial developer tried to use those assets, the cease and desist letter would show up before the ink dried on the proverbial box.

Or if a C&D letter wasn't on their desk as soon as they announced they were using Google assets without some sort of previous agreement, you can bet that a large percentage of the profits would head towards Mr. Google.

I'm pretty sure the basic EULA when using Google assets is something like "You make 'a no money, or we shut you down" 🙂 

16 minutes ago, Steve Dra said:

I'm pretty sure the basic EULA when using Google assets is something like "You make 'a no money, or we shut you down"

Yep.  That's pretty much covered under "fair use".  Technically under "fair use" we could all create our own sceneries using Google Assets, and it would fall under fair use.  Or it would be a grey enough area that Google would have no desire to throw money or effort at shutting it down.

Freeware is pretty much the same way.  Sure, one person is "doing the work" and distributing it to the rest of us, but again, if that developer is not getting any compensation for it, then, Google will most likely continue to turn a blind eye. (Although if enough people "buy me a coffee", they might take notices, which is why the whole "buy me a coffee" concept that some freeware developers are skating on, is thin ice indeed.)

But commercial software?  Google is going to require outright fixed payment, a percentage of the take, or both.   This is why I believe that commercially, most scenery development, will be around airports and creation of hand drawn objects in non photogrammetric cities like Orbx is doing with London and Sydney.  Freeware developers and Asobo/MS will primarily be responsible for improvements in natural scenery.

The real question will be if a commercial developer will tackle a place like NYC and attempt to exclude ALL photogrammetry and instead replace it with hand drawn.  The results would be amazing, but it's a LOT of work.  A place like London, DC or Moscow is a no brainer since Photogrammetry doesn't exist for them now.  But what happens if those areas receive it?  And will scenery developers put in work to redo an area like Seattle or South Florida that already has extensive photogrammetry?  Time will tell.

Edited November 4, 20205 yr by wthomas33065

2 hours ago, Dominique_K said:

You mean they burnt you @stake ?

Mods, how long must I put up with this abuse? @thestake, if you must. 

15 minutes ago, wthomas33065 said:

Yep.  That's pretty much covered under "fair use".  Technically under "fair use" we could all create our own sceneries using Google Assets, and it would fall under fair use.  Or it would be a grey enough area that Google would have no desire to throw money or effort at shutting it down.

Freeware is pretty much the same way.  Sure, one person is "doing the work" and distributing it to the rest of us, but again, if that developer is not getting any compensation for it, then, Google will most likely continue to turn a blind eye. (Although if enough people "buy me a coffee", they might take notices, which is why the whole "buy me a coffee" concept that some freeware developers are skating on, is thin ice indeed.)

But commercial software?  Google is going to require outright fixed payment, a percentage of the take, or both.   This is why I believe that commercially, most scenery development, will be around airports and creation of hand drawn objects in non photogrammetric cities like Orbx is doing with London and Sydney.  Freeware developers and Asobo/MS will primarily be responsible for improvements in natural scenery.

The real question will be if a commercial developer will tackle a place like NYC and attempt to exclude ALL photogrammetry and instead replace it with hand drawn.  The results would be amazing, but it's a LOT of work.  A place like London, DC or Moscow is a no brainer since Photogrammetry doesn't exist for them now.  But what happens if those areas receive it?  And will scenery developers put in work to redo an area like Seattle or South Florida that already has extensive photogrammetry?  Time will tell.

Regardless of the portion of the sea we dominated in our Naval careers, we are literally "in the same boat" (See what I did there? 🤣) regarding the hobby we love. 🙂

This is the rare occasion when a Brownshoe and a Bubblehead see eye-to-eye. 🙂

4 minutes ago, Ron Attwood said:

Mods, how long must I put up with this abuse? @thestake, if you must. 

Sorry,, I couldn't help. Last time, I promise. At the stake indeed. 

9 minutes ago, Ron Attwood said:

Mods, how long must I put up with this abuse? @thestake, if you must. 

Hang in there Ron...I'm sure we'll all be pretty "Well-Done" when they cut us down off the @thestake, but I think the dish will be quite delicious (Charred black on the outside, moist and juicy on the inside). 🙂 

Like you....there is a real timeline that the real world slaps us in the face with when discussing this....we're OLD in the REAL world!  We have many more years behind us than ahead of us...and unless they bury me with my PC and I can use it in the after-life, there is a concern that we'll never see it. 😉 

Hang in there my friend, hang in there. 

Edited November 4, 20205 yr by Steve Dra

32 minutes ago, Dominique_K said:

Sorry,, I couldn't help. Last time, I promise. At the stake indeed. 

What do you know, a man with a heart. 🙂

43 minutes ago, Ron Attwood said:

Mods, how long must I put up with this abuse? @thestake, if you must. 

Stop trying to get @tention.

1 hour ago, Steve Dra said:

This is the rare occasion when a Brownshoe and a Bubblehead see eye-to-eye. 🙂

Imagine if I had finished ROTC and become a man who doesn't "work for a living".  During my freshman midshipman cruise, I had grown to detest the officers on that LST so much that I wanted nothing to do with them, and gave up my scholarship and enlisted to become a nuke.  Wasn't the smartest move in my life, but that one dinner in the wardroom was enough for me.  Officers complaining how service was "so much better" when the steward rate was still a thing, and how the filipino stewards were so much better than the current mess cranks.  🤬🤬🤬.  Bus your own trays, wash your own clothes, and make your own racks you lazy @#$%%^&&^&'s.   

That's why I went with subs.  The officer/enlisted relationship is much better.  More mutual respect and less antebellum.  

Sorry for the hijack, I have issues.  Back to our discussion on scenery and MSFS.....

Edited November 4, 20205 yr by wthomas33065

21 minutes ago, wthomas33065 said:

That's why I went with subs.  The officer/enlisted relationship is much better.

It was very similar with the Brownshoe community, especially with small detachments (Dets).

Here is our Oink (actually O-in-C...officer in charge of a detachment ...mentioned for those who thought I just called my superior officer a pig, LOL)...changing an engine component because the AD's (Aviation Machinist Mates) were busy up on the main rotor head fixing something else.

Almost never in the Blackshoe Navy would you see this.  On a small helo det however....everyone worked to complete the mission, did not matter who did it or what the task was...it got done...nobody wants to be the one responsible for a mission failure.

BTW...he was a LCDR and actually made 05 on the det...was quite the "party" afterwards...with enlisted and officer both in attendance (but you never officially heard me say that).  We knew the boundaries, we knew the respect, and never crossed that line.  It was great to see him get his "scrambled eggs"...extremely sharp and great leader.  //NAVY mode off. 🙂

 

Edited November 4, 20205 yr by Steve Dra

@Steve Dra Aren't you a little too much active in these forums and have an important vote-rallying post to make instead? 😂

*for those wondering why this assertion in the middle of nowhere, don't, he knows why!

Edited November 4, 20205 yr by RXP

Just now, RXP said:

@Steve Dra Aren't you a little too much active in these forums and have an important vote-rallying post to make instead? 😂

*for those wondering why this assertion, don't, he knows why!

Lol....well-played!   However...if you were serious about that (I know you were...kidding once again)...you would have spammed me a link to the very specific post that you want me to weigh in on. 🙂  (or were you expecting me to start one, vs adding to an existing one...I will do whichever you feel will have the most impact to you and other Commercial Dev's plight in this area) 

@Steve Dra I tried sending you a PM but I'm locked out.