I thought the question was asked a million times but I couldn't find any trace on the forum.

The problem I have is about landing with crosswind, even when the wind speed is low, very low. I noticed that when I do a proper approach, with low speed wind that don't need a crab final approach, the aircraft has a strong trend to turn as soon as the wheels touch the runway, causing a succession of turns to maintain the runway centerline. I know the effect of crosswind on the aircraft. When taxiing, I know the torque pushes the aircraft to turn, but the crosswind also causes a turn by hitting the tail, pushing the aircraft to turn in the wind direction. But when landing, the torque can be forgotten because I'm on idle and the effect of crosswind is almost null when the wind speed is low. So why does the crosswind effect become so strong as soon as I touch the ground?

I don't think this is normal but I may be wrong...

[EDIT] I use no assistance at all for a maximum of realism.

Edited November 9, 20205 yr by Rocky

Try increasing the null zone on the left/right axis in Controls. I found i would veer off the runway after touchdown and it was because my joystick "center" was wobbling to the left.

Edited November 9, 20205 yr by sanh

2 minutes ago, sanh said:

Try increasing the null zone on the left/right axis in Controls. I found i would veer off the runway after touchdown and it was because my joystick "center" was veering me to the left each time.

That's a possibility because I use the twist axis of the joystick. Maybe my hand is unintentionally positioned so that it turns the nosewheel when landing. I will try be deactivating this control to see if it is the reason. Nevertheless, I must say it never happened when I was flying FSX, using the exact same controls.

Edited November 9, 20205 yr by Rocky

Its probably not your stick.

Small crosswind components are over-modelled in MSFS, to the extent even a 3-5 knot component from stbd will overcome the swing to to port when lifting the tail of a moderately powerfull taildragger on the take off run and get you inputting an unrealistic amount of left rudder to compensate (assuming clockwise prop rotation)

Edited November 9, 20205 yr by Pathfinder633

I think the effect is a bit over-strong.  Like people have said, the default 4 knot winds on the 'few clouds' setting does swing the aircraft around a lot. 

When it is on crosswind, I have to constantly hold the rudder in a fixed position.  So I think the effect on the rudder is too much.  You also see this with the constant 'fish-tailing' in flight, unless you turn off the gusts.

I would expect the aircraft to be a bit more stable than this in the lateral axis, but maybe a real pilot could give their thoughts.

 

2 minutes ago, bobcat999 said:

I think the effect is a bit over-strong.  Like people have said, the default 4 knot winds on the 'few clouds' setting does swing the aircraft around a lot. 

 

Not to mention broken clouds which sneaks in a 12 knot wind gusting to 24 .

Just now, Glenn Fitzpatrick said:

Not to mention broken clouds which sneaks in a 12 knot wind gusting to 24 .

Really?  Not tried that setting.  That would move the plane around a fair bit!  🙂

First thing I do now is change the wind to under 2 knots to stop the gusting effect which you see on the graph in the wind settings.

And... due to the "trigger from ground to air" physics that I guess they're using on their FDM, it looks like the intensity only starts plaguing it's effects above around 10 knot taxi speed...

Details like this spoil, for me, an otherwise interesting flight and overall physics modelling ( even though we can't really know right now how it's really being modelled ... ), but I do look fwd for MFS in... say... not less than 6 months from now - meanwhile, it's IL-2 time 🙂 where ground physics, with or without wind and turbulence, are simply a MUST !

Edited November 9, 20205 yr by jcomm

33 minutes ago, bobcat999 said:

I think the effect is a bit over-strong.  Like people have said, the default 4 knot winds on the 'few clouds' setting does swing the aircraft around a lot. 

When it is on crosswind, I have to constantly hold the rudder in a fixed position.  So I think the effect on the rudder is too much.  You also see this with the constant 'fish-tailing' in flight, unless you turn off the gusts.

I would expect the aircraft to be a bit more stable than this in the lateral axis, but maybe a real pilot could give their thoughts.

I fly and own a taidragger, the effect at height is arguable, the weathercocking  in small crosswind components when the wheels are on the ground is over-modelled

Edited November 9, 20205 yr by Pathfinder633

2 hours ago, Pathfinder633 said:

I fly and own a taidragger, the effect at height is arguable, the weathercocking  in small crosswind components when the wheels are on the ground is over-modelled

That's why I believed, thanks for confirming, and I think it is not only the case for taildraggers, also the tricycle gear. I think something is wrong in the modeling of crosswind, a too big difference between air and ground. Yesterday I was flying the C172 and approaching the runway (airspeed around 65 kts) with a 15 kts full crosswind with a very little crabbed trajectory, almost not impact, but when I touched the ground I almost got out of the runway. Why such a difference? I can't tell...

49 minutes ago, Rocky said:

That's why I believed, thanks for confirming, and I think it is not only the case for taildraggers, also the tricycle gear. I think something is wrong in the modeling of crosswind, a too big difference between air and ground. Yesterday I was flying the C172 and approaching the runway (airspeed around 65 kts) with a 15 kts full crosswind with a very little crabbed trajectory, almost not impact, but when I touched the ground I almost got out of the runway. Why such a difference? I can't tell...

Well in real life once you land and start to slow you need more and more control input to correct as your controls lose authority as you slow down, but it is a factor of speed not "air versus ground".

To be honest realistic flare and landing behaviour has never been a strong point in any of the FS sims.

Sims that don't have motion of the cockpit really can't simulate how real flying is experienced.

Your inner ear and "seat of the pants" gives your brain instant feedback of any small changes in planes attitude. So you naturally react to these very fast in a real plane.

In a sim you have to observe with your eyes on a 2D screen what is happening, so you will always be lagging way behind in your reactions, add to that most rudders and stick/yokes offer no feedback, so you are really "flying" with only partial senses. This is most obvious when landing and late in the takeoff roll.

I think the model in this and others sims i really quite good, the problem is trying to simulate a complex set of senses with only visual information, our brains are not that good at quick reactions to only visual input.

I have had some very "interesting" landings in gusty winds in real aircraft as well, though most landings in GA aircraft are easier than in the sims that exist today at these low prices.

17 minutes ago, 177B said:

Sims that don't have motion of the cockpit really can't simulate how real flying is experienced.

Your inner ear and "seat of the pants" gives your brain instant feedback of any small changes in planes attitude. So you naturally react to these very fast in a real plane.

In a sim you have to observe with your eyes on a 2D screen what is happening, so you will always be lagging way behind in your reactions, add to that most rudders and stick/yokes offer no feedback, so you are really "flying" with only partial senses. This is most obvious when landing and late in the takeoff roll.

I think the model in this and others sims i really quite good, the problem is trying to simulate a complex set of senses with only visual information, our brains are not that good at quick reactions to only visual input.

I have had some very "interesting" landings in gusty winds in real aircraft as well, though most landings in GA aircraft are easier than in the sims that exist today at these low prices.

I fully understand what you say here because I used to be a private pilot in real life, flying mostly C152, C172 and TB-9 Tampico. You confirm what I always thought: flying in real is easier than in a sim. Simmers who never flew as a pilot for real will probably be happy to know this 🙂
I always thought about this because of the field of view that is much larger in real life and because of the easy ability to look in all the directions instantly, no need to use a coolie hat, a mouse or whatever... But I never thought about our whole body used as a sensor to feel the aircraft reaction. This is obviously true, so true. Feeling the aircraft "with the guts" provides much more information for a quick reaction, you are absolutely right.

This may be why the sim developers should sometimes make their sim less realistic but more adapted to fly on a screen. This is another discussion...

I've also noticed this. The switch between ground and air physics is like night and day. If I'm taking off in a crosswind flying the C172 in the sim I need to have a bootful of rudder to keep it straight down the runway. On liftoff I then need to let go of the rudder immediately otherwise the plane yaws and drops a wing, as if I'd flipped the wind direction in the sim. There is no blend between air and ground.

It's the same on crosswind landings. If I don't kick off all the drift and get the nose at a perfect 0 degree angle pointing down the runway then on touchdown the plane immediately zooms off in the direction of the wheels, as if they slotted into rails leading away from the centre line.

Man, I'm glad to hear its not just me.  I thought I just really sucked at landing.  😀