Touchdown with crosswind... strange

[mtr75 653]

7 hours ago, Rocky said:

I thought the question was asked a million times but I couldn't find any trace on the forum.

The problem I have is about landing with crosswind, even when the wind speed is low, very low. I noticed that when I do a proper approach, with low speed wind that don't need a crab final approach, the aircraft has a strong trend to turn as soon as the wheels touch the runway, causing a succession of turns to maintain the runway centerline. I know the effect of crosswind on the aircraft. When taxiing, I know the torque pushes the aircraft to turn, but the crosswind also causes a turn by hitting the tail, pushing the aircraft to turn in the wind direction. But when landing, the torque can be forgotten because I'm on idle and the effect of crosswind is almost null when the wind speed is low. So why does the crosswind effect become so strong as soon as I touch the ground?

I don't think this is normal but I may be wrong...

[EDIT] I use no assistance at all for a maximum of realism.

The ground handing is a joke in the sim. As soon as you touch the throttle  for takeoff in the 152, with its overwhelming 110 HP, the airplane jerks to the left 45 degrees. I think basically the sim applies full torque/p-factor the second the plane is going 1 MPH, and that you see the same on touchdown. It’s ridiculous. 

Edited November 9, 2020 by mtr75

[eslader 1,820]

1 hour ago, Rocky said:

flying in real is easier than in a sim.

It's both easier and harder. There's more input to respond to (actually feeling the motion, etc), but the stakes in real life are higher and the physics engine is much more demanding. 

Over in p3d I can manually land the PMDG 747 smoothly and gracefully every time. I harbor no illusions that this means I could just hop into a real 747 and do the same thing. 

 

[smurfboard 9]

48 minutes ago, eslader said:

Over in p3d I can manually land the PMDG 747 smoothly and gracefully every time. I harbor no illusions that this means I could just hop into a real 747 and do the same thing. 

 

Awww, half the fun of simming is proving to yourself that you’re as smart as any veteran 747 pilot, and heck, you can prove it ! 🤣

[sd_flyer 6,108]

1 hour ago, mtr75 said:

The ground handing is a joke in the sim. As soon as you touch the throttle  for takeoff in the 152, with its overwhelming 110 HP, the airplane jerks to the left 45 degrees. I think basically the sim applies full torque/p-factor the second the plane is going 1 MPH, and that you see the same on touchdown. It’s ridiculous. 

I have noticed some oddities. Aileron into the wind suppose to cure windcocking on the ground but instead turns airplane into wind even more 

[FlyAndFight 37]

Good thread.  I've noticed this effect as well and it's quite frustrating.  As soon as the wheels touch the runway, I've got to stand on one or the other rudder pedal just to keep the plane going semi-straight.  Once it has slowed down to a crawl, the effect magically disappears and control returns (somewhat)..,

[Midin 10]

I have observed exactly the same issues as described here. Glad this seems to be an issue for others as well, so it is not a control setup problem. Let's see if this will get addressed at some point. I haven't seen this issue in the official forums though...

[sd_flyer 6,108]

Before we go deeper into discussion here are two most common crosswind landing techniques. I personally prefer crab

 

[marsman2020 1,310]

I think they may be applying "ground winds" the instant your wheels touch the ground, and "low winds" the instant you lift off.

Agree there is something very wrong with crosswind landings/takeoffs.

 

[jpe828 624]

12 hours ago, Rocky said:

I thought the question was asked a million times but I couldn't find any trace on the forum.

The problem I have is about landing with crosswind, even when the wind speed is low, very low. I noticed that when I do a proper approach, with low speed wind that don't need a crab final approach, the aircraft has a strong trend to turn as soon as the wheels touch the runway, causing a succession of turns to maintain the runway centerline. I know the effect of crosswind on the aircraft. When taxiing, I know the torque pushes the aircraft to turn, but the crosswind also causes a turn by hitting the tail, pushing the aircraft to turn in the wind direction. But when landing, the torque can be forgotten because I'm on idle and the effect of crosswind is almost null when the wind speed is low. So why does the crosswind effect become so strong as soon as I touch the ground?

I don't think this is normal but I may be wrong...

[EDIT] I use no assistance at all for a maximum of realism.

This is totally an issue. Anytime, there is a crosswind I veer into the wind... Only way I save it is by kicking hard the opposite way. This is not you, there is a problem in sim. 

[177B 730]

I posted earlier about how we don't have the sensory inputs from a sim you do in real life.

I can add this to actual handling of a plane.

If you land in a crab and don't straighten out and drop the windward wing as you land you will ground loop a taildragger pretty quickly if you don't counter immediately with brake and rudder.

A tricycle gear plane is more forgiving. It will tend to push your nose straight down the runway instead of turning more into the wind, but then you have to be right on with rudder and ailerons.

One of the hardest ground handling challenges I have had in a real plane was taxiing a 177 in 30-50kt wind on Nantucket at night. The landing was easy , 100' or so ground roll, but the taxing was almost impossible, the plane wanted to flip over when sideways to the wind, and you could not taxi down wind at all. Luckily I finally made it to the hangars where the wind was shielded a bit so I could get out and tie down w/o the plane flipping over with no-one at the controls, 3 of us got the job done barely. You have to fly the plane on the ground taxing in these conditions.

I would not worry too much about landing perfectly in the sim especially in x-wind. In a real plane it is totally different and I don't think a simple sim can emulate the experience. 

You can however practice slipping in wing low and the crab technique that is safer as long as you time the final straightening out at exactly the right time on touchdown.

I have mostly found that the wind drops drastically in the last 20' so. In a real plane I try slipping a few times on final just to see if I have enough rudder to compensate, sometimes it seems not possible so go around and land no flaps, you then need less crab and the rudder is motre effective. But also bear in mind that the wind usually is less at ground level. 

Also if things don't look good or touchdown is very rough go around. Always be ready to go around especially in gusty conditions even after touch down. 

Steady crosswind is pretty easy. Gusty can be expensive or fatal. I am still alive and not broke after thousands of x-wind landings in GA planes.

[Republic3D 1,232]

15 hours ago, Rocky said:

I thought the question was asked a million times but I couldn't find any trace on the forum.

The problem I have is about landing with crosswind, even when the wind speed is low, very low. I noticed that when I do a proper approach, with low speed wind that don't need a crab final approach, the aircraft has a strong trend to turn as soon as the wheels touch the runway, causing a succession of turns to maintain the runway centerline. I know the effect of crosswind on the aircraft. When taxiing, I know the torque pushes the aircraft to turn, but the crosswind also causes a turn by hitting the tail, pushing the aircraft to turn in the wind direction. But when landing, the torque can be forgotten because I'm on idle and the effect of crosswind is almost null when the wind speed is low. So why does the crosswind effect become so strong as soon as I touch the ground?

I don't think this is normal but I may be wrong...

[EDIT] I use no assistance at all for a maximum of realism.

I've been having the exact same issue. When I clicked on this topic I knew what you were going to say already. 

To me it seems very strange, you can be aligned perfectly on a crosswind approach, but as soon as the wheels touch the ground, the crosswind effect increases drastically. And no matter how much rudder you use, the plane will shoot off to one side. 

[Gaiiden 98]

I haven't seen anyone mention that this is a recent issue? I just started noticing this on my flight back on10/20, which was the first I did after 9/2 so somewhere in between there things went awry because from 9/2 and previous I did not have this problem on landing ever at all. Just flew again yesterday and still had the issue in my 152 wanting to veer to the right off the runway. Has this been an issue for anyone from near initial release?

[Glenn Fitzpatrick 3,799]

12 hours ago, eslader said:

Over in p3d I can manually land the PMDG 747 smoothly and gracefully every time. I harbor no illusions that this means I could just hop into a real 747 and do the same thing. 

 

Which is a good thing, a surprising number of sim users seem to have fantasies about taking over the controls of an airliner when the pilot has a sudden cardiac arrest. There is much in a sim that is different to real life.

For example when I put my aviators on it doesn't reduce the glare in game it just makes it really hard for me to see the screen at all  😄

A classic and rather amusing real life example (unless you owned the aircraft in question) occurred locally about 20 years ago when some young guy with flight sim experience managed to start and taxi a Cessna to the runway and tried to take off and ended up in the bushes and fence at the end of the runway.

 What was the difference between real life and his sim that tricked him up ? A Cessna usually has a physical control lock on the yoke to prevent it flapping about in wind gusts and taking damage while parked that you need to remove.  it is probably fortunate he did not get off the ground he may not have got back down again in one piece.

It does depend on the individual, an experienced pilot playing about with a type they are not yet rated for is a different situation to a total novice with no real time instruction at all spending 100s of unsupervised hours in a sim acquiring all sorts of bad habits.

 

 

Edited November 10, 2020 by Glenn Fitzpatrick

[eslader 1,820]

23 minutes ago, Glenn Fitzpatrick said:

A Cessna usually has a physical control lock on the yoke to prevent it flapping about in wind gusts and taking damage while parked that you need to remove

Then it's a shame he never bought the Aerosoft Twin Otter, 'cause that thing has control locks that need removing, if I remember right. 😉

People seem to have a strange difficulty separating fantasy from reality. There was a movie many years ago about a football (American style) team where the coach made them toughen up or something by lying in the road between the lanes while cars blasted by on either side of them. Several people went out and actually did it, and at least one got run over and died. If I remember right they ended up cutting that scene out of subsequent releases because people aren't smart enough to understand that it's fiction.

 

 

 

[Rocky 128]

11 hours ago, Gaiiden said:

I haven't seen anyone mention that this is a recent issue? I just started noticing this on my flight back on10/20, which was the first I did after 9/2 so somewhere in between there things went awry because from 9/2 and previous I did not have this problem on landing ever at all. Just flew again yesterday and still had the issue in my 152 wanting to veer to the right off the runway. Has this been an issue for anyone from near initial release?

I noticed this problem since the beginning, since the very first version released that I purchased on Aug 20th, I am 100% sure about this. I was hoping it would be fixed in a patch update, but it wasn't.