An Idea For P3Dv6

[Biology 1,347]

2 minutes ago, blaunarwal said:

Ok, did not know that. LM did never improve them since they were introduced. 

Sadly 😞

P3D would look a lot better with improved ground textures, improved building textures, improved SpeedTree assets, improved airport textures and more.

[mpo910 2,112]

4 hours ago, simbol said:

https://www.gameinformer.com/opinion/2019/03/21/is-cloud-based-streaming-video-games-future

Streaming is not the future... it has too many problems.. lots of companies have been running experiments with it and have faced the same problems explained in the article above.. technology will evolve into something better.. I don't see P3D V6 being developed using Streaming given the fact most large video game companies are now struggling with the concept and behind the scenes are reverting to something else.. aka unreal engine and the likes. 

https://petapixel.com/2019/03/22/this-is-how-photorealistic-video-game-engines-are-now/

S.

Well......Rendering based on DATA with Unreal seems a very nice solution too.....I watched several Unreal footage the last couple of weeks.......it is so great and "real".

Maybe if LM provides the "world" data for streets, coastlines, objects, trees, mesh, etc. the unreal engine can render the place where we fly around us?

Marcus

[blaunarwal 432]

2 minutes ago, BiologicalNanobot said:

P3D would look a lot better with improved ground textures, improved building textures, improved SpeedTree assets, improved airport textures and more.

Fully agree with you.

[G-RFRY 1,706]

4 hours ago, simbol said:

https://www.gameinformer.com/opinion/2019/03/21/is-cloud-based-streaming-video-games-future

Streaming is not the future... it has too many problems.. lots of companies have been running experiments with it and have faced the same problems explained in the article above.. technology will evolve into something better.. I don't see P3D V6 being developed using Streaming given the fact most large video game companies are now struggling with the concept and behind the scenes are reverting to something else.. aka unreal engine and the likes. 

https://petapixel.com/2019/03/22/this-is-how-photorealistic-video-game-engines-are-now/

S.

But that`s the concept MS game studio is looking for in the future may take a few years, but Phil spencer is aiming for a system that will only need a smart TV running on the cloud steaming and a game pass subscription and a game controller to play games, and in the future a few billion potential customers.

LM have no reason to go down that route it`s not aimed at gamers totally different product base.  

Edited December 7, 2020 by G-RFRY

[simbol 5,806]

3 minutes ago, mpo910 said:

Well......Rendering based on DATA with Unreal seems a very nice solution too.....I watched several Unreal footage the last couple of weeks.......it is so great and "real".

Maybe if LM provides the "world" data for streets, coastlines, objects, trees, mesh, etc. the unreal engine can render the place where we fly around us?

Marcus

Hard to tell at this point, this technology is fairly new but very powerful. What we don't know is how they can integrated it with real world data, which I find very interesting, imagine creating virtual worlds like this..

I am sure there are VR development firms already working on using this technology to render inside buildings and stuff like that.. In my mind 5 -10 years from now, we will see how this will extent into real world applications and a new generation of video games will blow away peoples minds..

S.

[kevinfirth 1,392]

15 minutes ago, BiologicalNanobot said:

This is because default assets Prepar3D uses for SpeedTrees are really bad, so we just need to replace default SpeedTree assets with better ones. SpeedTree itself is used on many games and it looks really really beautiful:

Prepar3D has this capability, and it's sadly being wasted because of subpar assets.

LM as a basic principle creates the capability, and leaves 3PD's to leverage and exploit it.  No problem with that in principle.

With speedtrees the market has failed though.

In this case, it seems as though the licencing requirements for speedtrees is too onerous for 3PD's to bring that to fruition, possibly combined with the impact of that which shouldn't be mentioned.  Therefore the logical alternative is for LM to overcome that barrier and enhance the base offering with much better default assets.  If LM is willing to pony up the licencing fee, perhaps talented operatives like @Rob_Ainscough or @simbol might work with them contractually to improve the default assets for everyone's benefit.

To maintain the status quo is to accept that the sim will always and forever be less than it could.

[simbol 5,806]

2 minutes ago, G-RFRY said:

But that`s the concept MS game studio is looking for in the future may take a few years, but Phil spencer is aiming for a system that will only need a smart TV running on the cloud steaming and a game pass subscription and a game controller to play games, and in the future a few billion potential customers.

But Sony and all other gaming firms.. are dropping it.. it is about running costs Ray.. the results you get (performance) vs the cost to be able to host services for billions of users is far too high. Specially with all the CO2 emmisions and requirements from government agencies to become energy efficient.

Imagine the capacity necessary and the amount of servers for example to render / stream Call of Duty blacks ops for 1 Billion of users.. the cost of energy, maintenance, etc. you need to take in are very big and you will not be able to sell the video game for more money..

Other MS managers disagree and in fact it is the reason why they plan to continue building Xbox consoles: https://www.denofgeek.com/games/xbox-new-consoles-streaming/

S. 

[G-RFRY 1,706]

3 minutes ago, simbol said:

Hard to tell at this point, this technology is fairly new but very powerful. What we don't know is how they can integrated it with real world data, which I find very interesting, imagine creating virtual worlds like this..

I am sure there are VR development firms already working on using this technology to render inside buildings and stuff like that.. In my mind 5 -10 years from now, we will see how this will extent into real world applications and a new generation of video games will blow away peoples minds..

S.

It already is VR is mostly used buy company's for training, the gas and oil industry use it to train people for rig work without having to let them near the real thing, like flight simulators do for pilots cheap3er and safer. 

[simbol 5,806]

1 minute ago, G-RFRY said:

It already is VR is mostly used buy company's for training, the gas and oil industry use it to train people for rig work without having to let them near the real thing, like flight simulators do for pilots cheap3er and safer. 

Yes.. but I meant using Unreal Engine world rendering.. against real world data. So let me give you an example, currently VR worlds are limited to the scene building the developers render for your VR simulation.

Theoretically with this new technology, if they link it to something as Google Map (so the information about the streets is available, but ignoring the pictures) they can render all the street and buildings via VR for you at runtime.. fast with high accuracy.

Think startrek holo decks.. that is were we are going..

S.

[G-RFRY 1,706]

Sony don`t have the AZURE CLOUD already used by millions of company's to host company`s without having to upgrade severs and shut down to upgrade, only AWS has something like it and they plan to launch a gaming service like Netflix does for films.    

[simbol 5,806]

1 minute ago, G-RFRY said:

Sony don`t have the AZURE CLOUD already used by millions of company's to host company`s without having to upgrade severs and shut down to upgrade, only AWS has something like it and they plan to launch a gaming service like Netflix does for films.    

A film is way different that a video game... when you click shoot.. you want it to shoot, when you say move you want it to move!

With the current TCP/IP technology this is not possible to be achievable as you always have TCP/IP packet loss resulting in:

• Missing commands between server / client.
• Missing frames between server /client.
• Lack of synchronisation between server / client. Meaning team sessions results in people being unable to see same things on time among many other problems.
• Lag to see reactions, etc.

This is why hard core Gamers keep rejecting streaming services as the experience is less pleasant with less graphic quality. You will never beat the graphic quality of a video game that is capable of rendering locally on your very expensive GPU vs downloading it over your internet connection. Before getting in the argument of Photo Real and MSFS, I am talking about rendering polygons, effects, camera movements, etc. Call Of duty rendered from a cloud service will never look the same as rendered via your own PC or Console.

Those Cloud servers you mention are designed for business purposes, aka hosting DATA for companies, they are not designed for hosting a video game (which requires very high CPU power, GPU power, etc.). Netflix does not requires high CPU power, it only requires hosting data and high bandwith.. so it is not the same as hosting streaming video games.

Streaming a video game, requires rendering the scenes via a server for each user connected to that server and transmitting this via internet to a client. So once again imagine 400,000 users at 2am playing different parts of Call of duty.. each of them might be on a different place.. this mean the server need to render 400,000 different places, at the same time and send all the data already in graphic format to 400,000 clients..

Then process for each of them each click, mouse move, shoot, etc.

In theory the "VIDEO GAME" streaming service sound very good for making money, but in practice it doens;t.. specially when video game companies require a "single standard" to develop such games, as a result.. things are moving away from streaming for games.. because everyday GAMERS want more fast cameras, better graphics, better effects.. incredible eye candy rendering and streaming cannot offer a reasonable improvement to offer such results.

For clarification, MSFS is not a "streaming video game", MSFS uses streaming of Photo Real scenery DATA.. however the rest of the product is using your own GPU / CPU to render the graphics and support the simulation.

So it is important to understand the difference between streaming DATA and streaming the entire Video game which is what Google, Microsoft and other firms were trying to push forward.. which in practical terms has never worked very well or being accepted widely by the gaming community.

S.

[G-RFRY 1,706]

 

[shivers9 1,174]

These discussions always end up with someone posting pictures of some game that includes a castle and a sword. It is just not the same world as a flight simulator. I love to look out the window and see scenery that looks a bit like my home airport just like every one else but we have to remember this is a "Flight" simulator first. In the beginning it was not a Bing map viewer, a Honey wagon simulator or a swaying tree viewer. I am afraid that until we all get our own satellite we are going to have to be less demanding about the accuracy of the pretty pictures. For those who just can't wait, there are plenty of blow up the castle games featuring large breasted damsels in distress for you to play with.

[dave2013 1,123]

Can't agree with some comments here about the landclass/texture scenery being good enough.  ORBX has done a phenomenal job with the landclass and texture tiles, but this scenery system will never be as good as photo-real terrain with accurate 3D objects.

I agree that the 3D buildings and vegetation need to be improved, but that is easily achievable.

I'm a big supporter of P3D and have advocated strongly for openLC Asia, which ORBX finally agreed to make as there is indeed a market for it, but I'm under no illusions that this type of scenery is the future of flight simulation.

As far as the streaming vs local content argument is concerned, MSFS only streams the scenery and weather data, and caches some of that data on the local machine.  The game functions are all run on the local machine.  However, I believe that this issue will be moot in the near future, as there will be affordable solid-state storage drives that can contain all the global terrain data.  Only the weather data and terrain & navigational data updates would need to be downloaded.

Dave

Edited December 7, 2020 by dave2013

[G-RFRY 1,706]

Yes and P3D is not a Scenery simulator it`s an aircraft flight simulator, i don`t use spot view when flying PMDG aircraft at 30,000+ ft only on take off and landing do you see the airport, you have other sims that do VFR better that`s why MS placed so much on camera views for the XBOX controller in MSFS ready for the game console.