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bdenley

Please explain FPS

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I am confused. I hear everyone here complain about getting only 15 or so FPS. I am getting anywhere beween 12-14 FPS and at LAX outside view it drops to 9-11 FPS but it is almost totally smooth for me. Very little hesitation. My machine is a dual core AMD, 3 gig RAM and an ATI 1900 w/ 512 mb of video memory. Are FPS differently perceived from computer to computer? Can someone please expain why for some 15 FPS is stuttering while for others (me) 12 FPS is almost smooth.Thanks!

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LOL, I know what you mean, but I really like FSX and I think that MS did a great job. I am just trying to understand why 12 FPS can be acceptable.Thanks for your reply!

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I guess it depends on your equipment and the type of flying you do. Single digit frames are not acceptable for most avid simmers, and the constant chant from those with high end rigs to ignore your frame rates and enjoy is an oxy moron. The point is that FSX does NOT perform acceptably under the minimum specs, so I think that recommended specs should be emphasised more in the advertising. I still like FSX, but many people do not have the skills to "tweak", and are not going to be happy campers when they install FSX.Ron

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It's completely subjective and there is no right or wrong. I've never known anyone to consider 9 FPS to be almost totally smooth but if you're happy then fine. Lucky you, that saves you a fortune in hardware upgrades!For me, I have it capped at 25 which I find okay for simming, although I'd like it higher. When it ducks below that I notice and below 18 or so, it's largely unplayable. If you use TrackIR or something like that, frame rate becomes more important to get the subconscious connection going - real head turns are smooth, so in game ones must be!In FPS games (First Person Shooters) like Quake or FEAR, I need at least 40 and much prefer 60 FPS (Frames Per Second ... this is confusing!), my monitor's limit, because I want to be able to quickly turn and get my cross-hair over someone's head fast but in sims or strategy games like Civilisation, 25 is fine.

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Since you have an ATI card, you should download ATI Tray Tools. This excellent utility has a feature, On-Screen Display, that can show information about the card while the game is running. Among heat and memory usage, FPS can be displayed as well.According to this FPS counter, the FSX counter shows only about half the rate. So, as long as FSX shows 8 FPS or more, it is still playable, because we are really getting 15+ FPS.

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Not true. It's well-documented that there is a problem with the ATI tools FPS display. The FSX counter is correct.Doug

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I think one of the best explanations is at the FS Insider site: http://www.fsinsider.com/Community/News-Ar...-Frame-Rate.htm. I get about the same frames you are getting consistently with my slightly lower end system (Intel P4, 3.6GHz w/2 gigs of RAM and an ATI X800XT PCIe video card w/256 of video memory). I have no complaints but have turned autogen completely off to keep the FPS above 10 most of the time. This is the only adjustment I made to the default settings the ACES team set for my system and I have not encountered stuttering yet. No "tweaks" have been made. I enjoy it very much but believe I'll have to upgrade my system when highly detailed commercial aircraft like those from LevelD, PSS, or PMDG hit the market.Best regards,Jim

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Gentleman i too like FSX and i would love to run it , i to wonder why some folks are satisfied with 15 to 20 fps, thats fine if you are fully loaded with add-ons.but be honest most of those guys are flying default craft with very little if any add-ons and are claiming good frame rate , what about the simmer that wants to add more add-ons , will he continue to get good frame rate , thats the one i want to here from.To me FSX is for the average user and not for the guy that wants more because there is no head room...........Robert

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> Not true. It's well-documented that there is a problem>with the ATI tools FPS display. The FSX counter is correct.>>DougYou say this with great authority, yet I can find no reference to this "well-documented" problem.Many people, including me, find that FSX performs far better than the FPS counter would indicate. This is purely subjective, however.The real proof is in the fact that the ATI Tray tools FPS counter matches the FS9 counter perfectly.I have yet to see any indication, let alone proof, that the FSX counter is correct.

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With autogen on and my sliders on the high side, I usually get 20-22 fps (max set at 220 and on big cities 12-16 fps and completely smooth. So with this in mind I never have the fps counter running. I just enjoy the FSX.Stelios

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Back on topic, smoothness in gameplay is purely subjective. If you find the game playable at around 12-14 FPS, then that's fine. For other people that's far from enough. For me, i need "at least" 20 and if possible more before i find it smooth. So people who prefer eyecandy over FPS (always depending on the system), always accept lower FPS because they like a better looking environment instead of smooth gameplay and they will a lot more quickly say that their game play's smooth compared to someone who prefers smoothness over eyecandy.I check smoothness in FSX by the way the ATIS line scrolls. If this line scrolls jerky (and at 20 FPS it still does), overall gameplay isn't smooth either. The higher the FPS goes, the smoother the ATIS line scrolls and the moment it arives at a "superb" smooth scroll, gameplay will be smooth too. But then, that's only my opinion and taste.

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So im to believe you have all settings above average and including autogen and you are enjuying 20 to 22 fps, and a drop to 15 to 16 in the cities.sorry that is hard to believe unless of course you using only default.id love to believe that but there are guys with better systems not getting that. So what is the trick or are you just lucky or a good tweaker:).................Robert

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Thank you very much for all your responses. I downloaded ATI Tray and it shows pretty much the same FPS as FSX does - give or take 1-2 FPS. My ATIS runs totally smooth on top even when I show 8 FPS. I just took out Feelthere's Legacy, outside view over LAX RWY 7 and I got 9.5 FPS and I can barely see any hesitation. That is what is so crazy when some of you say that FSX is unflyable below 18 FPS. Oh well, again thanks for all your help.

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Come on please, theres nothing wrong with the fps counter. download fraps and check it out your self if you have nothing better to do.You dont really believe that the team would implement a fps counter that shows too low fps :D.

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Maybe you have poor eyesight? :-lolI cannot tolerate it at all below 15-18FPS.18 FPS is my bare minimum. 20-24 seems ok in FSX if you can get it.I currently get 30FPS locked in FS9 fully loaded with addons.

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Don't know about him Robert, but you should believe it for me. Sliders mostly right, Autogen dense. 22-25 normally, 12-18 big cities depending on wx and AI. The trick is yes being a good twkr but also using the right components in your build, and knowing the finer points of tuning them. RhettAMD 3700+ (@2530 mhz), eVGA 7800GT 256 (Guru3D 93.71), ASUS A8N-E, PC Power 510 SLI, 2 GB Corsair XMS 2.5-3-3-8 (1T), WD 250 gig 7200 rpm SATA2, CoolerMaster Praetorian

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So Rhett, would you be so kind to share the tweaking you have done to get those great FPS so that we all can benefit from it.Thank you so much.

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>I am confused. I hear everyone here complain about getting>only 15 or so FPS. I am getting anywhere beween 12-14 FPS and>at LAX outside view it drops to 9-11 FPS but it is almost>totally smooth for me. Very little hesitation. My machine is a>dual core AMD, 3 gig RAM and an ATI 1900 w/ 512 mb of video>memory. Are FPS differently perceived from computer to>computer? Can someone please expain why for some 15 FPS is>stuttering while for others (me) 12 FPS is almost smooth.Push all the display and A.I. traffic sliders to the left and set min resolution, lock your framerates to 40-50 FPS, fly for a while. Then come back here telling us 12 FPS is smooth. :)Marco

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>So im to believe you have all settings above average and>including autogen and you are enjuying 20 to 22 fps, and a>drop to 15 to 16 in the cities.>sorry that is hard to believe unless of course you using only>default.>>id love to believe that but there are guys with better>systems not getting that. >>So what is the trick or are you just lucky or a good>tweaker:)>>>>.................Robert Robert what usually happens with guys with high end systems, they also tend to fiddle with various settings not leaving things as they come. I honestly tell you that I only changed the following in the fsx.cfgFIBER_FRAME_TIME_FRACTION=0.2TERRAIN_MAX_AUTOGEN_TREES_PER_CELL=2500TERRAIN_MAX_AUTOGEN_BUILDINGS_PER_CELL=2000[bufferPools]PoolSize=5000000I am happy to fly FSX with frames between 14-22!Stelios

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I know what the OP is saying, but I wonder if it has to do with what sorts of planes you fly. If my FPS drops below 10 there is a *little* stutter, but it's still playable. I fly small planes and I imagine since the view is updating in very small increments the jerkiness of low FPS isn't as apparent. Who knows, but I can definitely say if I was running 10FPS with any other game it would be unplayable, not so with FSX. In any event, I've been able to get more than satisfying performance both on my old system and my newly upgraded one. In fact with the new components I can max out just about everything but traffic volumes (keep it at 30%) and still get a very enjoyable experience.Old System:Althon X64 4200+2GB DDR 400 ram7800 GT OCNew System:E6600 Core Duo2GB DDR 800 ram8800GTS(yeah it's sweet and the intel chip blows my old athlon out of the water.)

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Ha ha!I hear the squeak of the hinges on Pandora's box...Ever since we have been able to set a max frame rate (and I can't remember when this feature appeared) I have set my max frame rate to 15.Wikipedia has this on Persistance of Vision:"Through experience in the early days of film innovation, it was determined that a frame rate of less than 16 frames per second caused the mind to see flashing images. Audiences still interpret motion at rates as low as ten frames per second or slower (as in a flipbook), but the flicker caused by the shutter of a film projector is distracting below the 16-frame threshold.Modern theatrical film runs at 24 frames a second. This is the case for both physical film and digital film systems."I figure that 15 gives the sim some "headroom" to load scenery, effects etc.However, there is something else going on, a steady 15fps or even 10fps I find quite acceptable (because I can't afford a faster system right now!) its the 3-4 fps that kill the sim.Also it always happens just when you really don't need it - trying to heave the 747 sideways because you messed up the approach.I always console myself that if I can land at sub 10fps in the 747 I will probably do really well once I get the "dream machine"Geoff

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Er,I just read the rest of the posts.Promise - I DIDN'T look at the MS page on framerates before posting...Geoff

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Do a little more reaearch. Or, failing that, just believe what you will. I have neither the time nor the inclination to go through this issue again...and again...and again...Doug

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