Just bought a new computer and I'm trying to overclock i9-10900K but I stumbled upon a strange issue I just can't figure it out on my own. I can get a stable 5.1GHz OC without any issues. The temps when stress testing (prime95, OCCT, Cinebench, etc) are in the mid 60s! That's really low, right? The issue is that there's no way I can get 5.2GHz, it immediately gives me BSOD after leaving BIOS, every time, even if I up the voltages to 1.400. I'm really confused because it appears I still have a lot of room temperatures-wise but I don't think it would be ok to go above 1.400 with voltages or am I wrong? Can I or should I even? I didn't try higher numbers because if I won't use it daily with those voltages, what's the point. What confuses me even further is that with default settings turbo mode can go to 5.3GHz without issues. I remember when I was OCing my old CPU (4790k) a few years ago only the temps were the limiting factor. Maybe I'm changing the wrong settings in BIOS, I watched pretty much all 10900K OC Youtube videos and I followed their advice. Any ideas what's the issue here and can I go higher than 5.1GHz since I still have like 10-20°C headroom with temps?

Motherboard: ASUS ROG STRIX Z490-G GAMING (WI-FI)
CPU: Intel Core i9-10900K
Cooler: SILVERSTONE Permafrost 240mm ARGB AIO WHITE water cooling (SST-PF240W-ARGB)

BIOS settings that I changed:

Ai Overclock Tuner: XMP I
ASUS MultiCore Enhancement: Enabled - Remove All limits
AVX Instruction Core Ratio Negative Offset: User Specify
AVX Instruction Core Ratio Negative Offset Value: 0
CPU Core Ratio: Sync All Cores
ALL-Core Ratio Limit: 51
Ring Down Bin: Enabled
Min. CPU Cache Ratio: 48
Max CPU Cache Ratio: 48
CPU Core/Cache Voltage: Manual Mode
CPU Core Voltage Override: 1.370
CPU Load-line Calibration: Leve 4:Recommended for OC

When trying 5.2GHz I changed the ratio to 52 and upped the voltages up to 1.400. I also tried Ring Down Bin on Auto, it didn't make any difference.

I don't have a 10900k but you might get some clues from Nick's guide here:

https://www.simforums.com/forums/building-a-10900k-system-and-clocking-it_topic64274.html

I used an older guide of his to build and overclock my current system. It has been rock solid stable. I plan on using this guide to build my next one.

Ted

15 hours ago, Tomaz Drnovsek said:

Just bought a new computer and I'm trying to overclock i9-10900K but I stumbled upon a strange issue I just can't figure it out on my own. I can get a stable 5.1GHz OC without any issues. The temps when stress testing (prime95, OCCT, Cinebench, etc) are in the mid 60s! That's really low, right? 

 

I'm surprised the temp is that low running stress tests. Especially if those stress tests are running AVX and you are overlocking to 5.1 of ALL cores. How are you measuring the temp? Make sure its measuring core temp, not CPU temp. CPU temp is lower. Use Hardware Monitor, CoreTemp or RealTemp or something like that. 

 

Quote

 What confuses me even further is that with default settings turbo mode can go to 5.3GHz without issues.

 

Yes but Turbo is not on all cores, its only on two if only two are active. Also there's a Turbo duration called "tau". Tau only boosts for 57 seconds. 

Edited February 21, 20215 yr by martin-w

1 hour ago, martin-w said:

I'm surprised the temp is that low running stress tests. Especially if those stress tests are running AVX and you are overlocking to 5.1 of ALL cores. How are you measuring the temp? Make sure its measuring core temp, not CPU temp. CPU temp is lower. Use Hardware Monitor, CoreTemp or RealTemp or something like that. 

I tested with HW Monitor and I just repeated the test with CoreTemp. Yep, 63-66°C on all cores. I did a test with prime95 and OCCT. I do have water cooling. I guess I have a lot of room temps-wise but I don't know how high can I go with volts.

I will go through NickN's guide but it's A LOT of reading there and I need a lot of time to digest all that. So in the mean time if somebody can look at my settings and suggest some changes or tips I'd appreciate it.

That guys "guides" are notorious for being way over the top. My advice is keep it simple.

My rig with a 10900K isn't built yet, still in boxes, so I cant go by personnel experience. but usually, with the 10900K, 1.35 volts is about where most end up, often a bit less. 

Have you checked the droop. I know you say you are set at 4 for LLC, but your voltage may be drooping further than you think under load. So certainly check to see how far its dropping below your set voltage. May be better at LLC 5.

Usually above 1.35 volts the temps shoot up pretty quick, so that's my only recommendation at this stage, to check the droop under load. Basically what I'm saying is that the voltage me be drooping a lot and be way under the voltage you think is being applied. 

If you monitor the voltage while under load you should see the droop. 

If its not drooping much, you should be able to nudge the voltage up above 1.4. I wouldn't go to far above though. 

All CPU's are different.

Make sure you have the latest BIOS too. 

 

Edited February 21, 20215 yr by martin-w

1 hour ago, martin-w said:

That guys "guides" are notorious for being way over the top. My advice is keep it simple.

I found no fault at all in Nick's guide...I have essentially the same setup as he used (ASUS Maximus XII Hero + 10900K).  In fact, I highly recommend the OP read it front-to-back...there's a lot of good advice in there, particularly regarding the realities and reasons not all chips can hit 5.2 and why not to despair over the same.

For the OP--no mention of your memory and Vccio and Vsa (system agent) settings.  Those can be important, especially at higher overclocks and with heavy PCIe bus loading.

 

I made a rookie mistake. I was doing Large data set tests. I switched to Small data set and temps went into 90s and pretty quickly it just BSOD'ed. With Small data set I can't even go to more than 5.0GHz or it just crashes. I guess I have a lot to learn. I'll try to go through NickN's guide but I just glanced through it and my head started spinning.

Silly question. Is there a big difference in performance if I just leave it on Stock which can go up to 5.3GHz on Turbo opposed to OC it to 5.0GHz (if it won't go higher)?

You may want to take Bob's advice and check Vccio. I'm running a much more humble system, but my overclocking didn't go well until I started tweaking Vccio - once I found the sweet spot with Vccio my overclock suddenly became stable.

1 hour ago, Tomaz Drnovsek said:

I made a rookie mistake. I was doing Large data set tests. I switched to Small data set and temps went into 90s and pretty quickly it just BSOD'ed. With Small data set I can't even go to more than 5.0GHz or it just crashes. I guess I have a lot to learn. I'll try to go through NickN's guide but I just glanced through it and my head started spinning.

A 240mm AIO cooler is going to be maxxed out and then some running a 10900K with HT enabled and AVX offset at 0 all-out with Prime95.  I'd also strongly consider disabling HT for your stress testing and your sim configurations unless you need it for something other than simming--it isn't going to improve the sim's performance, and in many cases it causes stuttering, at least it did for me.

I use RealBench as a more representative, less extreme stress test.  If you use P95, I'd suggest you at least turn off the AVX instruction set.

1 hour ago, Tomaz Drnovsek said:

Silly question. Is there a big difference in performance if I just leave it on Stock which can go up to 5.3GHz on Turbo opposed to OC it to 5.0GHz (if it won't go higher)?

A stock 10900K won't hold 5.3 GHz with any of the flight sim platforms running, as they all use more than just 1-2 cores.  Remember that the turbo mode is only specced for 1-2 core loads and for short periods.  It's really an advertising gimmick, not a practical performance expectation.  What you'll get at stock without overclocking is 4.8 GHz on all cores, and possibly lower with long periods of heavy load.

I overclocked an i9-9900K to 5.0GHz on a Noctua NH-D15 air cooler...I found that if it passes a RealBench stress test it'll run P3D just fine at that overclock as well.  I'd start there.

 

A couple observations about NickN's i9 10900k overclock guide.  First is that he doesn't own a i9 10900k system.  The other is that though his approach with using its Adaptive Mode for overclocking "works", it is off base in that it ignores specific Intel 10 series overclocking bios settings that are widely used by other overclockers (and to better effect as well though that can be a matter of opinion, and it's not that AI auto-OC junk either).  I called him on this more than once, and his response was to pretty much dis that info.  But beyond that, it's a really good guide.  If anyone would like specifics, PM me.

Edited February 22, 20215 yr by TheFamilyMan

3 hours ago, TheFamilyMan said:

A couple observations about NickN's i9 10900k overclock guide.  First is that he doesn't own a i9 10900k system.  The other is that though his approach with using its Adaptive Mode for overclocking "works", it is off base in that it ignores specific Intel 10 series overclocking bios settings that are widely used by other overclockers (and to better effect as well though that can be a matter of opinion, and it's not that AI auto-OC junk either).  I called him on this more than once, and his response was to pretty much dis that info.  But beyond that, it's a really good guide.  If anyone would like specifics, PM me.

But does it work?

12 hours ago, Tomaz Drnovsek said:

I made a rookie mistake. I was doing Large data set tests. I switched to Small data set and temps went into 90s and pretty quickly it just BSOD'ed. With Small data set I can't even go to more than 5.0GHz or it just crashes. I guess I have a lot to learn. I'll try to go through NickN's guide but I just glanced through it and my head started spinning.

 

Don't forget, even de8bauer, legendary overclocker and PC expert himself, doesn't run Prime with small data sets. He also disables AVX when using prime. Prime as you configured it is vicious and will generate a lot of heat. This is why you have an AVX offset in the BIOS. You set an AVX offset so that the CPU reduces its frequency when it encounters AVX. 

I use Cinebench and RealBench for stress testing an overclock. But to be honest, the real test is the programs you run day to day on your system. Intel XTU was probably included with your motherboard to. Aida 64 is good too.

13 hours ago, Tomaz Drnovsek said:

Silly question. Is there a big difference in performance if I just leave it on Stock which can go up to 5.3GHz on Turbo opposed to OC it to 5.0GHz (if it won't go higher)?

 

As I mentioned earlier. Turbo is on only two cores if just two cores are active. Max Turbo (5.3) is also only for 57 seconds, what Intel refer to as "tau". 

Thus, if you manually overclock ALL cores to 5 GHz its a reasonable overclock.

Personally, when I finally build my PC, I will experiment with overclocking to determine how well I've done in the silicone lottery, but after that point I'll just run with MCE enabled and XMP. 

 

5 hours ago, TheFamilyMan said:

 and it's not that AI auto-OC junk either

 

You know what, Ive encountered this before. Back when Asus auto overclock was called Five Way Optimisation, I tested it. I found that it was more complex with more settings than many realised. Most were just letting it do its thing and then complaining when the results weren't what they'd hoped for. I found that with a little effort to understand the settings, the results were very good, close to my manual overclock. In fact I ran with the 5WO settings for a considerable time.

I suspect the same applies to Asus's new AI Overclock. People don't take the time to understand it and then claim its garbage. The point is that it trains, studies your system over a period of time and makes adjustments as appropriate. What many do is rather than letting it do that, they take one glance at its initial prediction and claim its rubbish. There are actually some very useful setting in the BIOS to control it. You can limit how much it overclocks and set limits on voltage. You can also switch off training mode if you're happy with how its configured the overclock.

I don't think people give it a chance.

I may eat my words when I give it a bash. 😀

 

 

Edited February 22, 20215 yr by martin-w