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duckbilled

FSX Really Flying Now! - How I Achieved It.

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With reference to my previous post, "The Key To The Holy Grail" I was hoping to show some screenshots of what I have achieved on my mid-range Dell Dimension 8300. I cannot up-load them. I would like to make clear what I did to achieve superb performance on my machine. My approach to solving my poor performance issues with FSX concentrate on the preparation & install stage of the process and not post install tweaking of textures and cfg files.I believe the FSX installer falters near the end of the installation procedure when most of the critical configurations appear to take place. It does appear that if you stop some services running to save system memory, FSX performance declines. Amazingly it appears to run better without using the tools that we often used to shutdown unwanted background services, before running FS9. This is part of my reasoning for starting some of the dormant windows services before installing FSX to make sure they run properly, if indeed they are needed. I am no authority on computing however, I have somehow managed to unlock the performance in FSX on my modest machine which has a 6800GT graphis card and 1gig of system RAM.Without reducing any textures I have achieved 17-25 FPS while flying around the KPHX area, pretty much 20 FPS most of the time! Full autogen, highest scenery density, road traffic 30 even 100 percent, (the later does cause occassional dips to 14 FPS). Water effects mid-way. Cloud coverage at 100 percent & AI traffic at 4 percent. I cannot believe the detail that I now have, buildings everywhere!The effects of taking care and preparing the computer at time of install have really paid off!WHAT DID I DO TO ACHIEVE THIS, in summary.....Installed .NET Framework 1 in addition to the latest version which I have installed.Run Windows up-date.Run spyware utilities & check for viruses.Defragment drive.Removed old driver and cleaned up with Driver Cleaner Pro.Installed Nvidia driver 91.47, (the best driver as far as I am concerned).Repaired FSX installation with downloaded tool from Microsoft, (mentioned in my previous post, reference MICROSOFT KB928080).Cleaned out old registry values relating to FSX with CrapCleaner freeware tool, there are lot's FSX registry enteries left behind after un-install!Removed all files from Windows Prefetch Folder.Removed all temp files from the Windows Temp Folder.Disable Firewall and anti-virus software completely.Ensure no other programmes running.Force started the Windows Installer and .NET Runtime Optomisation. Force started any other likely services that FSX may need during install, (including Networking Services) but perhaps cannot be started easily by the FSX installer. There is logic behind kick starting the Windows Installer before FSX installation just in case it is required and cannot be started by the FSX installation, (asuming this is how it works). Install FSX.FSX now updates DirectX during install and appears to do a few other configurations near the end of the set-up procedure as well as playing an introductory video, all these extras not previously seen during my last two installations of the Standard Edition of FSX which left me with reasonable to very poor performance. DirectX up-dates inspite of having the latest DirectX drivers and SDK installed with no option to stop it, could this be a patch?Defragment drive, (try O&O Defragmenter with Complete Name file structure method selected).The simulation now ROCKS! look at the pictures, they say it all. It is possible to run this simulator on a mid-range machine with detail far exceeding that of FS9. It is possible to push autogen all the way to the right and have detailed road traffic, all this and no texture tweaks! Please note I have removed the default XML file from the autogen folder when the screen shots were taken. I had applied this tweak in the previous installation but could only use autogen at it's lowest setting with reduced autogen textures and without traffic etc.I guess I am now getting the performance that I should have had in the first place, you may be able to do it too!Some of what I have written here may not be relevant, I am sure there is some good solid advise with regarding to installing programmes, we do often forget to clean-up before we install a programme or turn off that anti-virus software. You could run the unlimited trial version of Tweak Manager, it has hundreds of settings that you can change in Windows XP, you can tweak to enhance XP core performance easily and saftely with this brilliant piece of software. I believe there is no need to purchase it because many of the tweaks useful to us are included in the unlimited trial version. Try also NT Registry Optomiser which is free. Chas

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Could it be that you killed your Anti virus so there was more system resources?

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No.......I always take care of that, disabling anti-virus etc. I believe it's more complex than that. Cheers!Chas

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Chas it sounds like you have simply done what any good knowledgeable hardware/software person does---you properly configged your rig.Microsoft intended to bring in new average joe FS'ers with this release. But the sim they released, does not cater to them at all. The average user knows nothing about deleting the prefetch every once in a while, knows nothing about defragging with a quality defragger, knows nothing about running services, and so on.And yet, these and many other things must be optimized to get good results with the sim. The average joe isn't going to know to do these things. The sim is good. But as it stands today, it is NOT for the casual user. They won't have a clue as to where to even begin on configuring it to run well.RhettAMD 3700+ (@2530 mhz), eVGA 7800GT 256 (Guru3D 93.71), ASUS A8N-E, PC Power 510 SLI, 2 GB Corsair XMS 3-3-3-8, WD 250 gig 7200 rpm SATA2, CoolerMaster Praetorian

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Thank's for that Rhett, this simulator is a real masterpiece. I would never have appreciated it fully unless I could see it in action with high scenery details and effects applied. When I look through the thumbnails of the default aircraft and see that the white Cessna Caravan has the thumbnail picture of the grey Cargo caravan, I wonder what else they have missed that is hidden deep down in the bowels of the program language that we cannot see! I like the idea that Microsoft decided to make a product that will last into the future, if Microsoft suddenly decided that this was it's final incarnation, we would at least have something that lasts for a while! Don't forget, I have proved it will run well on mid-specification machine right now!Chas

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Sometimes, I think I'd kill the "autogen" anyway! I keep lowering the slider in FS9, as I now believe that so many of the structures look, so cartoon like. I've gotten use to the improved textures of FSX, and would just as soon climb a few hundred feet to see photo-textures, versus cartoon villages at street level. Trees would be good though.I figure that I've had rather good luck with FSX, because it, along with FS9 and X-Plane were placed on the new CPU at the same time. Not much other programs or past problems to deal with. I'm even using the old CPU to type this. :)L.Adamson

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That's FSX's strongest point with me. The ability to use high resolution photo textures. I love the high resolution photo scenery demo from Just Flight. I'd rather have photo scenery that look's 3D than to have all that autogen. The frame rates that I get with the photo textures are now in the 40's to 50's and can enjoy the water at it's highest setting. I will be shopping for another hard drive to accomodate the photo textures of future shopping trips. I must admit that Microsoft have done pretty well to give the illusion of the real world, alas I have yet to have a bird strike! Chas.

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>Chas it sounds like you have simply done what any good>knowledgeable hardware/software person does---you properly>configged your rig.>>Microsoft intended to bring in new average joe FS'ers with>this release. But the sim they released, does not cater to>them at all. The average user knows nothing about deleting>the prefetch every once in a while, knows nothing about>defragging with a quality defragger, knows nothing about>running services, and so on.>>And yet, these and many other things must be optimized to get>good results with the sim. The average joe isn't going to>know to do these things. The sim is good. But as it stands>today, it is NOT for the casual user. They won't have a clue>as to where to even begin on configuring it to run well.Yes, but should Avg Joe have to do all of those things, in order to get a piece of software to work smoothly? No ;)

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>Yes, but should Avg Joe have to do all of those things, in>order to get a piece of software to work smoothly? No ;)>Looking at all the addons and associated cost's to bring FS9 up to the level that everyone is supposeably loving......Would the average Joe do that too? Of course not! ;)L.Adamson --- all I've done is add FSGenesis to my FSX.

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wow can anyone else confirm that starting these services will improve fsx performance? to me it all sounds like superstition or a placebo-effect deal

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Hello,I have a rather big FS9 setup and added FSX to my computer that I believed was fast (AMD64 3500+ with 2 gigs of RAM and 2 Nvidia 6800's in SLI). FS9 runs at 45 FPS and FSX runs at 8 FPS. I have done everything suggested and finally went with the following:1. TweakFPS for FSX2. IFR selections from TweakFPS that activates scenery but no Autogen3. Flying helo's only from airports where the FPS are easy and the scenery is great.I recently looked at a computer (DELL Game Machine) that would probably let me move to FSX only - it costs $4500 USD and is out of the question. It seems ashame that many of us are struggling to use FSX when we still have FS9 and all of its' addons - I actually prefer my FS9 setup to the FSX because I can't run the FSX and see the great things it is supposed to do. However, thanks for the suggestions - they will help someone I'm sure.Cheers,Ron Sagel

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I don't believe you have to spend all that money Sagel.I thought about creating a video to show how impressively this sim can run on a mid-range machine, I could only do that using the inbuilt video tool within the simulator. The video could then be shared to give inspiration to others who may be "down in the dump" because they have spent a lot of money on their machines and expect to get more out of them, when it now seems they can. I have experimented with no autogen and then increasing it to full with the scenery detail slider bang against the stop to the right. The difference in frame rate between no autogen and full autogen is about 8-10 FPS, which I now find totally amazing. I am worried that something may happen to change my good luck, like installing a later display driver. I wonder if I have corrupted the display driver, I have not re-installed it since I tried tweaking it with no less than two tweak utilities which gave me a blue screen of death each time I tried to start a flight. I reset the driver using RivaTuner. I cannot remember the name of the other tweak utility that I downloaded from The Guru Of 3D that I used to cause the blue screens. I don't blame that tool, I was foolish to use two together, (perhaps).At the moment my FSX is on a serious course of steroids!!!Chas.

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>Yes, but should Avg Joe have to do all of those things, in>order to get a piece of software to work smoothly? No ;)>That's not the question to ask, sounds like you put it on a different tangent. What I meant was, Average Joe *does not know* how to do all of those things. Not "should he". --which that question should not/need not be asked here.RhettAMD 3700+ (@2530 mhz), eVGA 7800GT 256 (Guru3D 93.71), ASUS A8N-E, PC Power 510 SLI, 2 GB Corsair XMS 3-3-3-8, WD 250 gig 7200 rpm SATA2, CoolerMaster Praetorian

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A placebo-effect! I have a genuine and very visible increase of performance, a simulator on Viagra (this is not a feeling that my simulator is better or bigger) you are hard to convince. I knew this post would raise some cynical replies, there is a lot of ill feeling around FSX at the moment.*******************************************************************The purpose of this post is to detail as many of the changes that I made to achieve what I have now, I hope that minds will be able to come together and piece the jigsaw together. ********************************************************************I have been thinking about using the video utility to upload a small video of my FSX experience, would that convince you?It is possible to share video's in FSX.It would be interesting to know how many people experienced a DirectX install without a prompt during the install of FSX.It would be interesting to know how many people saw an introductory video at the end of the install routine.These are events that never happened during my first two previous installs of this simulator. Yours ayeChas

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Thank you for the heads up.But anyway, IMHO it's common sense to stop each and everything that hinders FS to make use of all system resources.This includes keeping registry and hard drive in good shape.Antivirus and thelikes have absolutely no room on an FS PC, as have any other not FS related programs I mean. Sure, not everybody can afford a PC for FS only...And restricting the FS features (autogen etc.) to what the PC can handle is common sense as well for me.So, all in all, nothing new here.The point is: when I set a slider more to the left, I "cripple" FS somehow. This sums up with every slider that's not fully set to the right stop. The question now is if I want to play a crippled game or not. If not, current hardware cannot provide the amount of power needed to run FSX, let alone run it with complex add-ons. Period.I have my FSX stowed, it's unusable for me without something like PMDG's A320 and some decent airports. But then, I fear my FPS would be well below 10, so unusable again...Andreas

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Chas, the statement about the inbuilt sim video is where I start to wonder about the validity of the claims, although they may be true...The video part of FS only records position, altitude, pitch and heading information, it does not create a video file like an AVI or WMV or MOV file...I suspect you have somehow done something in your system that has given your system more room to breathe in running FSX but I don't believe that there is a panacea here...

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Thank's Andreas,There is certainly something new here.I did not create this post to tell you that you need to stop anti-virus software and to shut down background services, neither am I stating the obvious. The point is, this program can run extreamly well on what is probably a mid-range machine with performance that the cynics in this forum say is impossible. We want to know where the big injection of viagra came from and how to ensure that we all can enjoy it. It appears after trolling through this forum, there are others who are enjoying significant performance gains after re-installing this simulator, why?You are not having a good experience with flight simulator, I would expect you to be a little negative. It would be more helpful if you could tell me if you saw an introductory video and DirectX install near the end of your installation.Thank's for your input, cheers!Chas.

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Hi,I stated that I could maybe use the inbuilt video feature of flight simulator to create a video to show you what can be achieved on a mid-range system. You have not read my post very well. There are no claims to be here, no superstition, no placebo's etc.I am also stating that I never saw an introductory video play during the first two installs of my simulator. You have the "wrong end of the stick" :-)Yours ayeChas

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Chas, I used the old UK & Wales VFR scenery for FS9 but I didn't like it, partly because of the low resolution. I'm now using the Horizon Simulations VFR scenery and it is stunning. Even at tree-top level the textures are still reasonably well defined, unlike the FS9 version.Horizon will be releasing a full autogen package in April. They have released an autogen demo that covers a large part of Snowdonia in north Wales. This autogen is stunning. Buildings and trees are placed on their real-world counterparts (when the autogen is released I shall be checking that the large tree in my garden has an autogen tree placed there!)Ironically I think that the higher resolution textures make autogen more important. When flying at a few hundred feet (as I often do) you can clearly see the outlines of buildings. Unfortunately they are completely flat, as if they had been flattened by a huge steamroller. It looks completely unnatural. By placing well-designed autogen buildings over these images it looks natural - and very impressive. Horizon claim their autogen objects are more frame-rate friendly than the default and I believe them. Even with huge numbers of trees stretching into the distance the frame rates are excellent - and it runs very smoothly, too.And speaking of birds, there are many animated objects included, including birds and animals. Several times now, when flying over Snowdonia, I spotted flights of geese in a vee formation. And eagles circling over mountain tops. They are perfectly animated and looked completely realistic - and beautiful. Only yesterday, after landing the Grumman Goose close to Conway Castle, I spotted a group of porpoises swimming in the water. The autogen demo also includes some beautifully modelled buildings such as the castle and some bridges.This combination of high resolution textures and high quality autogen has provided my best flight sim experience - by far. I would suggest to Microsoft a new autogen feature for the next version: the ability to set a maximum autogen altitude. When you exceed the altitude above the terrain, for example 1000 ft, then the autogen should fade out. At higher altitudes the textures provide all the objects with realism and autogen is not required.But when flying at a few hundred feet or on final approach, autogen provides a sense of realism that cannot be provided by flat textures.By the way, Horizon also have a free flyable demo (Snowdonia) but without autogen. It was released a few weeks ago. I think it is far superior to the Just Flight demo.Best regards, Chris

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The inbuilt vide created will look good on any machine since it pre-renders and doesn't have to run real time.As for the other things, you did nothing other than tidy up your system, i.e. installed latest drivers, windows updates etc.Force starting windows services would have done nothing - if those services had stopped it is because they weren't needed. If they were or are needed at any time they start (as long as they are not disabled) - that is how they are meant to work. The installation wouldn't of required any services to be running that weren't already doing so.You tweaked your system - nothing more, no magical secret, just another 'performance discovery' masquerading as a PC tweak.I'm afraid a lot of the issue with PC installations is that many people have come to see a PC as another electrical component and take them for granted, like a DVD player or a games console and forget that because they not running a hardware OS that they can be can be configured in many ways, rightly and wrongly. PCs are so readily available pre-built these days that people think they can take them home and install everything they want without maintenance. Isn't the case I'm afraid.

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Repaired FSX installation with downloaded tool from Microsoft, (mentioned in my previous post, reference MICROSOFT KB928080).I think you may be on to something here! Others have stated they are seeing performance gains after applying the Microsoft fix you state above, except that was after a reinstall. How did you manage to do this on your system prior to your installation? Or was this also with a reinstall? I'm now getting good FPS too, I have a E6700 system though with 2GB and ATI X1950 Crossfire cards! How does your system compare with the performance I see. Check out the FSX vs FS2004 thread in the screenshot forum to see what I now see in FSX. As well as someone with a presumably more powerful system (a QX6700). There is quite a difference!

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Hi Tom,Thanx, Tom I will do that.There is something going on here, I rekon Microsoft know about it too. Remember, if I can achieve what I have achieved on my modest system, then I believe a Microsoft patch will be forth coming in the future that will un-lock the performance of this simulator without us having to throw expensive up-grades at it, many more people will be able to enjoy it too.I applied the KB928080 patch then re-installed FSX after removing redundant registy values, some of which were almost certainly from the demo which I had installed and removed prior to my purchase of the full version. I was not aware that people were getting asignificant frame rate increase after applying the KB928080 patch, (Microsoft, I hope you are paying attention). There may be issues too related to having installed the demo which may have a negative impact.There are so many variables, it's difficult to know where to start. It's in the hand's of Ace's to sort it out.BRGDSChas

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>The point is: when I set a slider more to the left, I>"cripple" FS somehow. This sums up with every slider that's>not fully set to the right stop. The question now is if I want>to play a crippled game or not. If not, current hardware>cannot provide the amount of power needed to run FSX, let>alone run it with complex add-ons. Period.>All we have is FS9 to compare with. All sliders to the right in FS9 can't compare to the clarity of the high resolution images that are possible in FSX; even when the FSX slider's aren't fully to the right.So in effect, and certainly what I notice, is that FS9 with all it's addons, is essentially crippled by your definition to start with. And it's a problem that will never, never heal.It's also the problem that I now see, everytime I fire up FS9 with all those sliders to the right and all those addons. It just looks inferior to the new FSX, it always will, and there is nothing that can be done about it.L.Adamson

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Chris,I had Horizon's VFR package. I took it back to the store. Horizon advertise wondeful night lighting textures included in the box. When I opened it, the cupboard was bare! The night lighting texture folders have a text note inside, that states that due to technical difficulties and problems with the night lighting, they withdrew the textures at the last moment before production run!Slapped wrists for Horizon, a slap on the hand for continuing to advertise the textures, giving the impression that they are included in the box. I may come back, if they can deliver the good's the actually work as stated "on the tin".Chas

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I know how the services work, I explained that. You missed the point, I ask if the services required during install can be successfuly called when required by the program. A valid and good point!I never claimed to have found a magic bullet tweak or anything like that. I am telling you that the programme will really rock on a mid-range machine and set out to detail what I was doing before I found the viagra which I probbably should have had in the fist place.BRGDSChas.

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