MSFS 2020 is really getting there!

[Dominique_K 10,152]

Of course with Omo my shirts  are whitier but with Persil they are  softer

[Chock 17,769]

4 hours ago, Janov said:

But this is not what the rest of us talk about when we say "flight model". It is not the "flight experience" - it is the way the aircraft behaves and reacts to control and environmental inputs.

You might get the very best flight experience in GTA V, because you have gangsters and cops chasing you and firing at you and it has great music and a much better flight experience than X-Plane and MSFS combined! 🙄

If anyone is genuinely curious about how X-Plane´s flight model stacks up: Download the free demo, set up your joystick and try for yourself. Don´t trust the word of "IRL" pilots, you will get widely varying testimony which depends on the reporters willingness to gloss over deficiencies in exchange for the better visuals (i.e. Chocks "flight experience").

I'll take your word for it on GTA V, personally I've never played it. You see what I did there? Same thing, straw man, not what you said, nor what you meant.

And similarly, that's not what I wrote at all either. I commented that the visual experience is a complement to the flight modeling which adds to what the flight model achieves after having gone into considerable detail on how and what those flight models do and how they achieve stuff, including a link to my video comparing those flight models which is over two hours and twenty minutes long, and which fully explains the marking criteria I used to score each one, from audio, to flight model to visuals etc, etc, to ensure there is no confusion over what I am considering in making such a comparison. If this is your idea of 'glossing over' matters, then I am happy to observe it is considerably different from my own.

A feeling of flying on a PC in a commercially available sim, by definition has to use monitor visuals to convey the feeling of flight, since almost without exception, PC flight simmers have no motion platform to impart any feeling of movement at all. The visuals are what convey the movement imparted by the flight model. You only have to look at how many flight sim fans obsess over frame rates, the latest GPU, screen resolutions, cockpit textures and so on to know this. But there is a big difference between something being a complement to a system, as opposed to a substitute for it, and this is what my remarks concerning the visuals was considering. The visuals in MSFS complement the impressive flight modeling of MSFS, to further enhance the experience.

But as I also said, anyone can feel free to agree or disagree. And on the subject of this, I agree with you that one should not trust that 'I'm a real pilot' stuff which people bandy about sometimes and I've said so on numerous occasions that if everyone on the internet claiming to be 'a real pilot' really did know how to fly an aeroplane, test pilots for the aeronautical industry would be ten a penny. Personally I don't really care whether anyone thinks I can fly a plane or not (frankly I'd rather they didn't actually, since I strongly believe that sort of thing makes flight simming seem snooty and exclusive, and I don't want it to be perceived that way), or whether I've worked on the systems of airliners and such; as long as I know I have done these things and can recall these experiences in order to inform my choices and the video reviews which I like to make, then that's all I'm concerned about in regards to flight sims instead of boring people with my 'war stories'. Experience or no, it is after all, still just my opinion, and you know what they say about opinions.

So if someone were talking about a specific aeroplane's technical aspects and a person who flies that type of plane every day is explaining the technical aspects of that aeroplane, then yup, absolutely you probably can trust or at least find something of value in what that person's experience brings to the conversation. But with regard to computer flight modeling and how it replicates real flight, then a pilot is precious little more qualified to comment on this aspect than anyone else, unless that someone else is a software expert who makes flight models or some such and who also has a ton of aerodynamic wind tunnel experience or is perhaps a test pilot. Or as Oddball says in Kelly's Heroes: 'I just drive them, I don't know what makes em go'.

And I agree that people should try things for themselves, which as noted, I have, for years with every iteration of XPlane since version 5, and every version of Flight Simulator since SubLogic's version 2 of it for the Amiga, plus a ton of other flight sims too. That's where the decision comes from; trying all those out determining which one best matches my own experiences of flying real aeroplanes. Of course not everyone has real piloting experience, but they too can try them all and see which one feels right, or enjoyable or convincing to them personally, and if that is what makes them happy with their choice, then great.

At the end of the day people can like what they like, but since someone on this thread asked me why I thought the flight model in MSFS was better than the one in XPlane, I answered the question.

You can disagree with me if you like - you'd be wrong - but it's your choice. 🤣

[Spam3d 54]

I really agree with this, always been a tubeliner guy for two decades of flight simming. This version changed everything! The GA aspect is so enjoyable and I'm having so much fun sight seeing all around the world. I've only just stared using the bush trips adventures and currently flying through France to the alps. I'll say that I do all of my flying in VR which to some might sound crazy, but I really got hooked on it from xplane, and as soon as it was introduced to fs2020 I never looked back, I'm just waiting for a word not allowed RTX card now to really crank it up a bit!! 

Edited June 1, 2021 by Spam3d

[Car147 2,284]

Like Spam3d i was only interested in tubeliners when i first bought MSFS, and had no plans to even try GA etc, other than  a " just see what they are like flight". I then got mesmerised by the scenes, weather at lower altitudes with my first GA aircraft purchased  being  the Mooney.

Now i am looking to fly everything from Heli's, to the stunning DC-6 from PMDG, I have two World trips on the go using the Mooney for one and the CRJ 500 for the other... I have my daily hop in a tubeliner, the choices now endless.

[OSM 683]

3 hours ago, Janov said:

But sometimes it feels like I am the only one who knows how it works 😄😄😄

Janov, but you don't know how MSFS works because you don't have it!!! 😄😄😄

[devgrp 1,233]

1 hour ago, Car147 said:

Like Spam3d i was only interested in tubeliners when i first bought MSFS, and had no plans to even try GA etc, other than  a " just see what they are like flight". I then got mesmerised by the scenes, weather at lower altitudes with my first GA aircraft purchased  being  the Mooney.

Now i am looking to fly everything from Heli's, to the stunning DC-6 from PMDG, I have two World trips on the go using the Mooney for one and the CRJ 500 for the other... I have my daily hop in a tubeliner, the choices now endless.

I flew around Egypt yesterday for the first time in any sim and it was absolutely beautiful. Now it's possible to go anywhere in the world and have beautiful views 

[Gilandred 723]

Whether MSFS has the best flight model is debatable and for the experts to pontificate on.  For me it offers a level of immersion that I can’t get elsewhere, short of flying in real life.  I suspect most simmers real life experience is flying at 30,000 feet in the back of an airliner looking out below at either clouds or landscape.  This is the essence of what MSFS captures so well.  The other sim die-hards will tell you it’s just eye candy and continue to downplay its importance in creating an overall feeling of flight immersion.  The more technical aspects are surely being improved, and the future is bright indeed.

[Janov 2,383]

6 hours ago, Chock said:

You can disagree with me if you like - you'd be wrong - but it's your choice. 🤣

I didn´t read your wall of text, so I just disagree by default.😋

3 hours ago, OSM said:

but you don't know how MSFS works because you don't have it!!!

If you really read what I wrote carefully (again), you might notice that I never claimed to know MSFS.

[CarlosF 1,243]

On 5/31/2021 at 9:44 AM, Langeveldt said:

Two things I'd kill to have brought over from X-Plane are the Zibo

You got that right, man do I miss the Zibo. Every once in a while, I do go back to XP but just to fly the amazing Zebo. 

[Chock 17,769]

7 minutes ago, Janov said:

I didn´t read your wall of text, so I just disagree by default.😋

 

Love it, that's really funny. 🙂

[Cpt_Piett 4,814]

9 minutes ago, Janov said:

I didn´t read your wall of text, so I just disagree by default.😋

This is such a provocative statement, that really lines up with all your other provocative statements - both here and on https://forums.x-plane.org/. If it was an attempt of humor - I’m sorry I didn’t catch it. 

[Bosco19 198]

I have commented on how I feel that sims can dwell too much on numbers at the expense of "art." I spent most of my flying life in lightweight, factory and home-built tail draggers. These types utilize the "original Fly-By-Wire system" - or should I say Fly-By-Cable? I am used to being in aircraft with which I had a constant, direct connection to every control and control surface. There is push-back and feed-back in even the slightest control movements. You feel the resistance of the mechanical connections, the "weight" of the air against the control surfaces, as telegraphed through your stick and rudder pedals. And gravity constantly tugs and pulls at your entire body. I don't expect ANY simulator to be able to replicate that! Regardless of cost or level of sophistication. It just isn't reasonable to expect it. The best I could hope for is a handling experience that roughly mimics what I would expect to happen in the real world, as applied to each type I might be flying. I think the best we can hope for in any sim is a "satisfying experience." If I accept that no sim implemented through a desktop PC and a bunch of peripherals, and devoid of physics, is ever going to be able supply me with an exact replication of what I once experienced while strapped into my home-built aircraft's open cockpit, then what WOULD be reasonable to expect and be satisfied with in a sim? I think MSFS 2020 has made the best attempt yet to satisfy my expectations. Considering the limitations, I think the best possible experience is going to be delivered by the combination of "reasonable" flight models, and what is to date, surely the most convincing all-around presentation of the world yet seen in a sim. It isn't perfect. It never will be.But whether you've been a real pilot or not, MSFS is capable of delivering some pretty astonishing moments.

[CarlosF 1,243]

13 hours ago, Janov said:

X-Plane´s flight model stacks up

It took LR 10 iterations of XP to improve its flight model. What's the point in comparing it to msfs2020 in its current development state? A lot of MSFS2020 and XP user base are NOT rw pilots, so who are we to confirm if it really stacks up. Even rw pilots differ in their opinions when it comes to XP's flight model.

I for one, moved to MSFS2020 for 4 good reasons:

1, it looks amazingly beautiful and lets me fly with an immersion that I have not experienced in other sims, even with all of its bugs and shortcomings. It will get better when it matures.

2. MSFS2020 works quite well even with my 6 year old computer specs.

3 Weather, ohh man what an immersion, never in the past have I experience an approach in bad weather conditions like I have with msfs, the clouds look stunning and best of all, no sudden change in weather conditions.

4. The fact that Asobo listens to its customer base and takes time to inform its users of what they are working on and what the future holds for the sim, something LR never does. 

 

Edited June 1, 2021 by CarlosF

[Janov 2,383]

10 minutes ago, CarlosF said:

I for one, moved to MSFS2020 for 4 good reasons:

Hehe, I just love it when an MSFS user confirms all my prejudice about MSFS users 😆

 

[CarlosF 1,243]

3 minutes ago, Janov said:

Hehe, I just love it when an MSFS user confirms all my prejudice about MSFS users 😆

LOL, your comment doesn't make sense at all, the only explanation that would make sense (that I can think of) is your quite often sarcasm towards others when responding. I wonder what you are doing here in the MSFS2020 forum, could be that you're trolling?