I am a fan of this aircraft - who isn't ? - and had it for various incarnations of MSFS, also a couple freewares for X-Plane, in DCS and in IL-2 as well as in War Thunder, and a few other combat flightsims from the 90s of the last Century.

I think FlyingIron did an excellent work recreating the Spitfire 3d model, the sounds and even some details of systems modelling, but they were surely limited by the present state of the Modern FM, and found it difficult to properly replicate some of the well known characteristics of the Spitfire in terms of ground and flight handling.

I know it's still early to make any assumptions about MFS's ground physics because even ASOBO has already acknowledged they're a mix between their new FM and the Legacy modelling of ground dynamics. The model doesn't taxi anywhere near what is supposed to be the technique for taxiing a taildragger with a free castoring tailwheel, and a brake system were there are actually no toe brakes but rather a stick-installed brake lever to be used in combination with rudder inputs. In MFS this isn't possible at all ! The same applies to the free tailwheel - there appears to be no chance for it in MFS, and I did play with the CFG files of some of the default taildraggers with no success. Some parameters don't do a thing about it, although they're there in the file...

In flight the aircraft requires,  contrarily to the real thing, tail heavy trim for cruise. It responds to thrust changes without practically no torque effects, and when you reduce power it bleeds off speed like if it was a glider... It starts dropping promisingly down to a given point but then, from there on, it takes other approaches to bleed off speed. One can lower the gear and the flaps and that will help, but, inflight, in clean configuration, reducing power should really have a significant effect on speed 😕

Prop drag, or the lack of it, is another characteristic feature of most prop aircraft I have tried in MFS. There may be some way to properly model it, but apparently very few have found the way to...

Talking about flaps, one of the tests I like to run on any Spitfire candidate is lowering the flaps. Apart from just a few, the DCS Spitfire and after a patch the IL-2 Spifires too, lowering the flaps causes ballooning and a marked pitching up where there should actually be the opposite 😕. I am aware that it makes a lot of difference not being able to translate the effect into a force-feedback stick, but in simulation IMH it's better to search for alternatives that can give outcomes closer to what is found IRL.

 

Edited September 4, 20214 yr by jcomm

Yup, there is very little prop drag on many of the aeroplanes in MSFS. Having flown a Boeing Stearman for example, in both real life and in MSFS in the DC Designs offering, I can confirm that the real thing's propeller seems to act like a massive air brake when you take the power off, which is something the DC Designs one doesn't do. It also drops like a rock without the power on because of the drag from all those struts and wires and stuff.

I can only presume that a lot of WW2 fighters would also be like that in real life given that the Stearman was one of the the aeroplanes of choice used to train many fighter pilots in WW2.

However, I remain fairly pragmatic on this matter, accepting that there will inevitably be some aeroplanes in MSFS which don't behave exactly as they do in real life, and that Asobo will probably get around to addressing this, and as developers make more and more add-ons, they too will figure out ways to address these foibles. in the interim, I view the way any aeroplane behaves in the sim as something I might have to try stuff with in order to get it to do what I want, which might not always be what you'd do in the real-world counterpart, but is still an interesting challenge.

MSFS is certainly not unique as a flight sim on a PC in not always depicting pitch trim changes upon flap deployment not as in the real world, but as you say, the Spitfire in real life, as with many taildraggers of that era, was something which needed to be eased down with occasional bursts of power once it got dirty on the circuit and there would be little need to struggle with getting it to slow down when in that configuration with the throttle all the way back and a bit of stick back pressure. As my old WW2 mate who was a Spitfire pilot in that conflict and who finished up as a Wing Commander in the RAF told me, the Spitfire was a lovely aeroplane to fly and to quote him on flying the Spitfire in particular: 'Never mind the pay we got, I would have done that job for nothing'.

Edited September 4, 20214 yr by Chock

1 hour ago, jcomm said:

 X-Plane, in DCS and in IL-2

 

Careful you will have "this is the MSFS forums" 🙂

Shame as most here are grown ups and shoudl be able to talk about any sim in relation to another.

Edited September 4, 20214 yr by Nyxx

1 hour ago, jcomm said:

 

I think FlyingIron did an excellent work recreating the Spitfire 3d model, the sounds and even some details of systems modelling, but they were surely limited by the present state of the Modern FM,  

 

I cannot disagree because you are right in all you say. But with numerous years of simming I came to the resigned conclusion that a convincing (for me!) approximation is good enough. I accept that I do not fly a Spit' then, I fly a FIlyingiron Spit's with her own idiosyncrasies which differ from the real one.  

The flaps are a good example. I know how they work in the FI bird and fly approach accordingly  (anticipate).

Is it Asobo architecture ? I don't know. Maybe. But, for years, everybody was saying that the FS9 engine couldn't simulate spin and then Rob Young came. There is a lot of wizardy in modeling the flight, or so it seems to me, and the inventiveness of some modelers can remedy many things. 

Edited September 4, 20214 yr by Dominique_K

Ahhh....here we go.  Careful how you fly it jcomm, you don’t want to get yourself into an ‘uninstall’ situation.😃

I think the F1 Spitfire, after several patches, is now a very lovely thing and has become my go to sightseeing plane.

Trim worked very well indeed before SU5 and after a post-SU5 patch it’s...okay but yes it’s now tail heavy.

Flap deployment I find okay as long as you follow the cockpit placard and deploy under 160 but yeah, lack of prop drag in the game is noticeable by it’s absence.

Slowing down on approach requires closing the throttle and pulling the prop lever right back too which is hardly realistic.

In my opinion only DCS has got engine response correct so far. Close the throttle, keep slight back pressure on the stick to maintain altitude and watch the speed fall away.

However, overall - when it comes to high powered tail draggers - I still think IL2 gives the best illusion of flight on a home pc.

Ground handling and the transition between being on the ground and being airborne still needs some love from Asobo generally....

I just want turn slip addressed.  Even FS9 did this right.

I've been flying the DCS Mk.IX solidly for the last few weeks and obviously it's chalk and cheese compared to the FI Spit in MSFS. I think that's down to the physics engine in MSFS rather than anything else. The FI one isn't a bad aeroplane, and they've been reasonably quick with patches to fix whatever the Asobo sim updates break. It's a bit unconvincing in places but no more so than other taildraggers in MSFS, and the lack of prop drag is a well known bug.

Of course, none of us here have ever flown the real thing so we can't really say what feels right and what doesn't. Personally I take the P3D A2A Spitfire as the benchmark, seeing as Boultbee Flight Academy asked them to make a Mk.IX version for their certified fixed-base Spit sim.

All good observations - thank you !

I too look fwd for further dvelopment, specially from ASOBO. They're really dynamic, so, maybe I can get positively surprised again in the future :-)

Meanwhile, yes, it's still a very nice aircraft to have in my rather limited MFS hangar...

Thank you for the very detailed review of this bird Jose!

I didn't know you had it in your Hangar 🙂

DCS really has a FlightModel that makes these High Powered Prop Planes feel alive like no other sim I have experienced. The Prop Torque will definitely make you smell the flowers from the grass fields on the ground if you are not careful with how you use your power + bad rudder technique.

I think the FlightModel in MSFS2020 currently isn't suited for such planes. It's done in a way to work for more stable and tame airplanes, such as Cessnas, etc. As soon as you start going too much away from this "Pilot's First Experience" Aircraft category, it will show more and more the lack of complexity needed to be considered. 

Of course, other Spitfires are available..........

 

11 hours ago, Chock said:

As my old WW2 mate who was a Spitfire pilot in that conflict and who finished up as a Wing Commander in the RAF told me, the Spitfire was a lovely aeroplane to fly and to quote him on flying the Spitfire in particular: 'Never mind the pay we got, I would have done that job for nothing'.

A friend of my Dad's who was a Spit pilot also said in my hearing one day..  word not allowed.. these modern pilots and their runways..   that would never have worked in a Spit..  just a big open field and let me get wheels on grass is the best I could ever hope for.. 🙂

Graham

Latest version, installed yesterday as I pushed WU6, pitched down with flap deployment !!!

Flying Iron is awaken and takes used feedback into consideration ! Thumbs Up !!!

Edited September 12, 20214 yr by jcomm