So, I am putting a question mark (?) in the title, because I believe Seb, Martial, and Jorg said that supersonic flight modelling is officially supported in MSFS after SU7, but it's also kind of confusing because when the question was asked, Jorg was kind of shaking his head and implied it wasn't supported, but then Seb said it was supported, and Martial responded after Seb saying anything they implemented on supersonic flight modelling is open to other 3rd party developers, and then finally Jorg responded after Martial, implying that nothing is locked from the 3rd party developers:

Seb, Martial, and Jorg's response on super sonic flight modelling available for 3rd parties

If supersonic flight modelling is officially supported after SU7, this has a lot of implications. First, it means that companies like FSLabs can now make a Concorde for MSFS.  Secondly, it means that developers that already made planes for MSFS that are supposed to fly at supersonic speeds, can now use the official SDK for supersonic flight, rather than using a "workaround" for supersonic flight (I believe some 3rd party devs used a workaround to achieve supersonic flight?).

However, the answer from Seb, Martial, and Jorg was a very high level answer, I think. Perhaps at a more detailed level, there are still missing components, or gaps, in supersonic flight modelling for MSFS. So I'm not 100% sure, based on their answer, that a company like FSLabs can make a Concorde for MSFS. Hopefully, 3rd party developers can check to see what are the capabilities of supersonic flight after SU7 is released, and if there are problems or gaps in supersonic flight, let the community know, and we can press Microsoft/Asobo to fix these problems/gaps, so that supersonic flight can be properly modelled by all 3rd party devs properly in MSFS.

Edited November 17, 20214 yr by abrams_tank

They said the performance of the Hornet was accurate, for mach speeds at various altitudes, right down to the sonic booms at the varying speed of sound.  If that isn't a decent simulation of supersonic flight, then I don't know what is.

What other information are you after exactly?  What's missing from your point of view?

3 minutes ago, bobcat999 said:

They said the performance of the Hornet was accurate, for mach speeds at various altitudes, right down to the sonic booms at the varying speed of sound.  If that isn't a decent simulation of supersonic flight, then I don't know what is.

What other information are you after exactly?  What's missing from your point of view?

Is this enough for FSLabs to bring their Concorde to MSFS?  I believe FSLabs said they couldn't bring the Concorde to MSFS because MSFS was missing various aspects of supersonic flight modeling.

Just now, abrams_tank said:

Is this enough for FSLabs to bring their Concorde to MSFS?  I believe FSLabs said they couldn't bring the Concorde to MSFS because MSFS was missing various aspects of supersonic flight modeling.

I get it.  But unlike normal phases of flight, not many of us really know what if is like anyway.  I have a book written by a Concorde pilot, but he doesn't really make any profound revelations about it.

The aircraft expands of course due to the friction heating of the surface (like the SR-71 ), but I am not sure if we need the modelling that accurate, or how we would experience the feel of that anyway.

I did work on various components of the Concorde program, and heat seemed to be the biggest problem.  E.g. the cockpit windows were made of special materials so that the vinyl interlayer didn't delaminate.  And for the pilots, trimming by moving fuel between the tanks seemed to be the most different issue to them. (Probably the flight engineer actually).

Without the direct input of FS Labs to tell us what they can't simulate, I would say after the release of SU7 (not long now ), they should be able to get it close enough that the vast majority of us wouldn't know any different.

For me, if it goes fast and goes bang! I will be happy! 

 

I would think the biggest challenge for supersonic flight would be accurate modelling of time dilation between the sim and real world.  E.g., if I spend 1 hour in MFS flying at Mach 1.6, when I land and exit the sim to eat dinner my wife should be 0.0011638 years younger than me (give or take). 

Edited November 17, 20214 yr by Stoopy

1 hour ago, abrams_tank said:

Is this enough for FSLabs to bring their Concorde to MSFS?  I believe FSLabs said they couldn't bring the Concorde to MSFS because MSFS was missing various aspects of supersonic flight modeling.

The only thing under the sun that would get @Ray Proudfoot to speak that four letter word.... Dare I say it out loud... MSFS.   🙂  

All joking aside great to see them progressing and adding new functionality.  A lot of people questioned why they added a fighter jet to a civilian sim but I think the supersonic flight modelling was the driver as much as "Top Gun" 

Edited November 17, 20214 yr by psolk

For FS Labs to even contemplate a Concorde for MSFS the SDK would have to be far more complete than now. Given they’re still working on the P3D version I just don’t see it happening for years if at all.

A reminder came up on my Facebook timeline yesterday. 4 years ago FSL announced a 64-bit Concorde for P3D. We wait patiently.

5 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

For FS Labs to even contemplate a Concorde for MSFS the SDK would have to be far more complete than now. Given they’re still working on the P3D version I just don’t see it happening for years if at all.

A reminder came up on my Facebook timeline yesterday. 4 years ago FSL announced a 64-bit Concorde for P3D. We wait patiently.

Ray, no jinx intended but I would not hold my breath for that P3D Concorde. Just sayin’

-B

14 minutes ago, btacon said:

Ray, no jinx intended but I would not hold my breath for that P3D Concorde. Just sayin’

-B

Well given Concorde flights have been going on on VATSIM for quite some time and can be linked back to the main developer I’m not sure where you’re getting your info from.

@Ray Proudfoot apparently there have been some major breakthroughs.  A2A went from no hope at all to "All major road blocks are cleared" in a post just yesterday.  AIG went from nothing to a functioning Beta so something with recent enhancements and the upcoming SU7 certainly changed things. We also don't know what FSL are missing, Fenix, PMDG and others seem to be wading into the quite advanced aircraft functionality realm already. No one actually knows what FSL would need to bring the Concorde to MSFS but FSL and well we all know how great their comm skills are LOL. 

How detailed is the Digital Designs Concorde going to be from a systems depth perspective?  This Supersonic announcement plays right into their wheelhouse that's for sure!  Looks like they will be the first Concorde to market it's a question of systems depth. 

Quote

This version of Concorde has been the subject of intense study, with both the flight deck and exterior models built with reference to hundreds of high-resolution images taken from retired museum-exhibit Concordes both in Scotland and in Surrey.

 

A custom flight model governs the aircraft’s subsonic, transonic, supersonic and super-cruise performance envelope, which will allow users to fly the correct Concorde profiles for trans-Atlantic flights, and will require correct handling of the aircraft in order to achieve her famous high-altitude and high-Mach performance ( Mach 2.01 at 55,000ft ).

 

The vast majority of Concorde’s unique features are present, including the requirement to use a custom-coded fuel management system to maintain correct Centre-of-Gravity balance throughout the flight envelope, fully operational engineer’s station, weather radar, nose-droop mechanism, advanced autopilot system and fly-by-wire controls, along with the ability to super-cruise at Mach 2 without the use of reheat.

Detailed Description

The exterior model features 4096 textures for incredible clarity and the latest Physical Based Rendering (PBR) material technology to produce realistic metallic, plastic and glass surfaces. Realistic animations include the famous four-stage nose-droop, undercarriage, inlet ramps, bleed doors, reverse-thrust buckets, control surfaces and all passenger and cargo doors.

 

Concorde’s flight deck has been modelled with high visual-detail and realism in mind. Literally every single switch, button, dial and knob is 3D modelled and fully animated, including the complete engineer’s station, which will require monitoring during flight to ensure safe and successful operation of the aircraft. 

 

AEROSPATIALE / BAC CONCORDE

 

• High-detail 3D model based on extensive research and visits to museum-exhibit aircraft

• Fully animated exterior model including all access doors, engine inlet ramps, thrust-reverse buckets and control surfaces

• Concorde's famous, multi-stage 'nose droop' and windscreen animations recreated via custom coding

• Full interior and exterior night-lighting

• PBR textures throughout

 

FLIGHT DECK

 

• Truly 3D virtual cockpit featuring accurate controls and detailed PBR texturing 

• 3D modelled dials throughout: HSI, ADI, 'whiskey' compass and other high-detail instruments with smooth animations

• Captain, First Officer and Engineer's station all operational

• Fully modelled passenger cabin with working displays, lighting, access doors and other unique animations

• Aircraft modelled and optimised for high-performance on all systems, and for use with Virtual Reality headsets in MSFS VR Mode

• Full interior night-lighting ( dimmable )

 

AIRCRAFT SYSTEMS

 

• Accurate flight model with Mach 2 'super-cruise' capability and realistic handling throughout the flight envelope

• Custom modelled FMC system 

• Custom-coded engineer's station with operationally-required tasks, including fuel management for Centre of Gravity control during high-altitude cruise, along with automated options for control of Concorde during the flight regime.

• Full navigation suite with VOR, NDB, ADF radios and Transponder 

• Full communication suite with multiple radios

• Full multi-mode autopilot system

• In-Sim checklist with full Heathrow-to-JFK flight guide

 

 

LIVERIES

 

• British Airways 1985-1987

• British Airways 1998-2003

• Air France 1976-2003

• Singapore Airlines G-BOAD

 

 

MANUAL / PAINT KIT

 

A full operations manual and paint kit is included.

 

  SOUND

 

• MSFS-native (Wwise) sound package by Sim Acoustics taking full advantage of the simulator’s new sound capabilities both inside the cockpit and around the exterior model.

 

@psolk, the DC Designs Concorde will be a simplified version of the real thing. This is their reply to a question about the INS systems asked on the FS Elite review of the P3D version...

 We did look into including the CIVA INS with Concorde, but as the Concorde INS was quite detailed and complex we felt it would take the product away from the target market. As a result I don't know the full details of the CIVA product's inner workings to be honest. If you're big into the detail it might be better to wait for FSLabs, as they're now working on their updates to Concorde for P3D and perhaps MSFS.

They’re using a GPS system I believe, not INS. Also, the CG handling will be simplified by the FE. They openly accept it’s not as detailed as the FSL Concorde.

When you’re designing a very complex aircraft with unique systems the SDK has to be robust. Given the many problems discovered by adding AIG Ai to MSFS it’s clear a lot more work is required.

2 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

@psolk, the DC Designs Concorde will be a simplified version of the real thing. This is their reply to a question about the INS systems asked on the FS Elite review of the P3D version...

 We did look into including the CIVA INS with Concorde, but as the Concorde INS was quite detailed and complex we felt it would take the product away from the target market. As a result I don't know the full details of the CIVA product's inner workings to be honest. If you're big into the detail it might be better to wait for FSLabs, as they're now working on their updates to Concorde for P3D and perhaps MSFS.

They’re using a GPS system I believe, not INS. Also, the CG handling will be simplified by the FE. They openly accept it’s not as detailed as the FSL Concorde.

When you’re designing a very complex aircraft with unique systems the SDK has to be robust. Given the many problems discovered by adding AIG Ai to MSFS it’s clear a lot more work is required.

I certainly never thought it would be as detailed as FSL but seems like a very good compromise of an offering.  Especially at the right price point. Personally I'm good with GPS, I use it on the DC6 too 🙂   I also welcome an FE, use that on the DC6 too LOL.  Wouldn't they have done that in real life anyway?   

The AIG issues are with AI.  Completely different. No one denies AI needs work   What's more relevant are what PMDG, Fenix and the add-on aircraft developers are doing.  A2A saying there are no more obstacles and the SU7 introductions including supersonic flight certainly seem to be moving things in the right direction...  

 

 

@psolk, if you have a mild interest in flying at Mach 2 at 58,000ft then the DCD Concorde is probably fine for you.

But with fewer fuel tanks and no MAX CLB / MAX CRS on the AFCS it’s a no-no for the more dedicated Concorde enthusiast. The FS Labs FSX Concorde has a virtual FE who will handle the 13 fuel tanks for you. But it’s another skill to learn and I enjoy that aspect of flying her.

The Ai problems seem to have been brought to the fore once Ai was injected. Hopefully the next update will improve things and not break anything.

3 hours ago, abrams_tank said:

I believe FSLabs said they couldn't bring the Concorde to MSFS because MSFS was missing various aspects of supersonic flight modeling.

They spoke? I was under the impression that they were under a silent oath about MSFS when looking at their forum.

Also I don't get why the SDK is not advance enough, Civa is aligning, punching coordinates, handling precision degradation and adjustment with VOR/DME and a couple more things, seems to me, as a challenge like the Asobo/WT G1000NXi.

Managing CG with fuel tanks can be done right now, real time, using the MSFS fuel page.

FsLab concorde FE is doing similar thing to PMDG DC-6 FE.

No afterburner on engine 3 or 4, can't remember, during a takeoff portion can surely be done.

Limited FBW is there, but improved by FBW sim.

Supersonic is on with SU7.

And there is no need for terrain / weather radar / navdata

Yes. Yes it is.