Hello guys, I don't mean to be boring, but I'm creating this thread to discuss a bug that's really annoying:

When are planes going to stop behaving like a boat in a storm during the takeoff run? I ask because it hasn't been fixed until today is a bit embarrassing.

Well, I pray every day for planes start to behave like planes in these conditions.

Please, Asobo/Microsoft, fix that!!

If there is no crosswind airplanes actually behave pretty close to real life. What is a problem? Can you elaborate? 

14 minutes ago, sd_flyer said:

If there is no crosswind airplanes actually behave pretty close to real life. What is a problem? Can you elaborate? 

Hello. 

But in crosswind conditions, the plane behaves like a boat in a storm. The effect is very exaggerated, even frightening.

The plane's behavior under these conditions is bizarre.

Edited December 7, 20214 yr by Trovis

1 minute ago, Trovis said:

Hello. 

But in crosswind conditions, the plane behaves like a boat in a storm. The effect is very exaggerated, even frightening.

The plane's behavior under these conditions is bizarre.

Currently the is problem with tire friction. So duding crosswind airplane skid and wethervane prior getting airborne. This is known problem

However, not sure what do you  mean boat in a storm. In real five say in 172 if pilot mismanage rudder control airplane can skid, loose control, and even tip over. So in sim rudder requires good tweaking to have a finesse, real life like control feel.

Here some good explanation of directional control

Here is what happens when directional controls fails, and late go around initiated

 

Here is another one. Same directional control loss

 

I agree with the OP, with some cross wind it gets pretty exaggerated…i get that in real life you get the weathercocking, I do have irl flying time and hold a pilots licence and can say while things can get pretty hairy in certain times irl, never really to the extent and frequency I see in the sim on the takeoff roll with a cross wind.

Oh boy, I have tried to bring this up before. I always get told it is realistic and this is how it really is etc etc. As a pilot in real world, it is not, and the OP is correct. There is a problem when there is a 9 knot crosswind and I have full rudder to counteract the airplane from yawing into the wind as I rotate. 

Crosswind effect is DRAMATICALLY overdone during takeoff and landing right now. 

The solution though isn't more rudder work; it's to deflect aileron into the wind during takeoff and landing roll.  This minimizes the aircraft's weathervaning tendency and makes directional control much easier (and/or possible).

This is actually realistic and it's cool to see it modeled.  The problem is it's just overdone. 5kts of crosswind component feels like 25kts lol.  But if you start your takeoff roll, and end your landing rollout, with full aileron deflection into the wind, it works. 

Just like in other flight simulators the "blend" between ground physics and "air" physics is sometimes difficult to get just right.

I'd say the best simulators I have ever tried and brought me closer to real sensations of handling in x-wind situations and overall ground physics were the good old Flight Unlimited 3 and IL-2 Great Battles, and according to RW 744 drivers Aerowinx PSX too.

Even DCS World uses a trick similar to that used my ASOBO in MFS, where the radial ( cross ) component of ground wind is proggressively brought to it's real value from almost zero as the aircraft gains speed during the takeoff run.

As sd_flyer has pointed above, it's acknowledged by ASOBO, and they promised revisiting that in the future, as well as a new propeller physics model that will probably come with their investment in the rotary wing physics.

Overall aircraft feel way too light on ground, twitchy, and if there's just a light x-wind, you'll find them trickier to control.

8 hours ago, Stearmandriver said:

The solution though isn't more rudder work; it's to deflect aileron into the wind during takeoff and landing roll.  This minimizes the aircraft's weathervaning tendency and makes directional control much easier (and/or possible).

This is actually incorrect because as much as aileron into the wind is important to counter the higher lift generated over the upwind wing and causing it to "want to rise" it actually aggravates weathervane by contribuiting with yet another force "wanting" to turn the aircraft nose upwind, in this case due to roll-induced yaw + additional friction on the upwind gear.

[ Edit / Correction ]

Some posts bellow Stearmandriver replied saying that indeed it has a positive effect, and I replied after that acknowledging that, indeed, due to adverse yaw, and particularly on aircraft where this effect is more present ( high aspect ratio, etc... ) the effect can actually help not only due to the sideslip BUT due to the fact that adverse yaw although present only for some seconds will actually tend to turn the aircraft downwind, compensating even if just temporarily for weathervane.

[ End of Edit]

NOTE: Taking today's adverse conditions in Ireland, I just took off from Shannon ( EINN ) in the Caravan, rw 24 "EINN 070800Z 17027G38KT 9999 FEW018CB SCT028 BKN050 08/04 Q0970 NOSIG" and it felt pretty much acceptable. I believe ASOBO already partially fixed the ground physics under x-wind some updates ago (?).

Went trying it in P3d v5.3 with one of the default aircraft and I actually felt it less realistic than I would expect for such conditions and x-wind. I'd say I prefer the way the effect is modeled in MFS now, and looking fwd for their adjusted ground physics.

X-Plane having a much more detailled per-wheel physics doesn't do it better either, IMO, although Austin made big improvements along XP11, and also used a reduction of wind with altitude bellow 30 feet AGL (rw).

IRL some gliders are really tricky to deal with under x-wind conditions. For instance the LS1 I fly requires taking off with spoilers to create some turbulent flow that makes the ailerons "come alive" sooner, specially on x-wind takeoffs. The spoilers are brought in as we gain speed and positive control. Not having a prop at the nose / propwash to help a bit makes most gliders trickier to tame under x-wind 🙂

Edited December 7, 20214 yr by jcomm
typos, mostly...

Yes incorrect ground friction that especially noticeable during crosswind indeed acknowledged by Asobo. There was one Q&A when Asobo promised fix that will have over several updates. Now for sure in 2022

Something that is always missing in all these threads is  the rudder controller that  the poster use : pedals, twisting joystick, keyboard, auto-rudder.

I am presently mostly  flying the PC-6 and the DC-6 with a good pair of pedals and if I do not dispute that the crosswind effect is exaggerated,  I also see that it is very manageable when you stay within the parameters allowed for a specific aircraft.

 

5 hours ago, Stearmandriver said:

5kts of crosswind component feels like 25kts lol

This is my thought exactly. 5kt wind during taxi is not something I even notice IRL. But in MSFS I need to compensate with rudder pedals to maintain centerline on taxiways.

2 hours ago, jcomm said:

This is actually incorrect

I promise you it's correct.  While the forces you describe are real, they are minor compared to the dramatic increase in weathervaning tendency that occurs if the pilot allows the upwind wing to rise even a little. 

In a taildragger, there's no better way to lose directional control in a crosswind than to fail to use enough stick into the wind.  Yes, directional control is primarily maintained with rudder, but without enough stick into the wind you can easily find yourself in a situation where you don't have enough rudder authority to counteract a sudden weathervane.  More aileron into the wind - if you're quick enough - will save this situation. 

It's less critical but still applicable in tricycle gear aircraft.  It's even noticeable in a 737; if you find yourself really fighting for centerline control, it's usually a clue you need a little more aileron into the wind.  This comes with more negatives in an airplane with aileron/spoiler coupling, but when you need it, you need it. 

23 minutes ago, Stearmandriver said:

I promise you it's correct.  While the forces you describe are real, they are minor compared to the dramatic increase in weathervaning tendency that occurs if the pilot allows the upwind wing to rise even a little. 

 

On the A2A site, there is an interesting p-51 tutorial explaining the rudder/aileron play during take-off of the beast. It has served me well for less powerful aircraft.

https://a2asimulations.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=94&t=31684