You need to learn.

1 minute ago, Greazer said:

You need to learn.

dedicate most of every day to doing exactly that. Pays well to.

24 minutes ago, mSparks said:

dedicate most of every day to doing exactly that. Pays well to.

dedicate nights too; and don't be fooled by the likes of Linus or "sparker".

VR might have matured, but the last few posts in this topic might not be reflecting the same maturity. I'm sorry to say. 😕

39 minutes ago, RXP said:

VR might have matured, but the last few posts in this topic might not be reflecting the same maturity. I'm sorry to say. 😕

Boys never grow up, the toys just get more expensive and dangerous.

Which creates a need to make them cheaper and safer.

Which drives innovation.

 

@mSparks

Couldn't say any better how 2D feels now. I often refer to 2D now as "Gameboy Advance", or "Nintendo", to fill my lack of words how 2D feels after using VR.

I'm using Rift S for exactly a year now (actually one year and 2 weeks), and every time I run XP11 in 2D to test something I'm working on, or test ortho, visuals, etc, except the sharper visuals on my 1440p monitor, flying seems lifeless, flat, uninspiring. I love to say that it feels so 2000s. Moving the view with a mouse or joystick buttons, feels like I'm still stuck in year 2005/10. The scale of objects on the monitor is way off, C172 cockpit is at least 30-50% bigger than in VR where the scale is 1:1 comparing to real world.
Now, in VR, natural depth perception and head tracking, will trick your brain so hard. It's tricked so good, that 90% of persons will experience motion sickness. I was lucky that I NEVER felt any motion sickness in VR, only that strong unpleasant feeling in my stomach. It's not sickness by any means, it's kinda what it feels like when you are on a rollercoaster, and you need to breath faster and faster. That is exactly how Aerofly FS 2 felt like first time when I flew it. I was crazy enough to load a helicopter and do some hammerheads and loops 2nd day after getting Rift S. The strain in my stomach and head was immense, I literally felt like a real pilot. That was the moment I knew I fell in love with VR! You are sitting in the virtual cockpit, and it feels immense when you do acrobatic stuff.
Now, that feeling is almost completely gone, I can do all sorts of acrobatic stuff without even feeling it, and I believe that is how real pilots feel also after many flights too. Practising is everything, even in VR. 🙂

The main caveat of VR, in my current case with Rift S is the resolution of course. It leaves a lot to be desired. But to be honest, my 1080ti is on the limit nevertheless, so even getting Reverb G2 or Quest 2 will only make me desperate to get new CPU and GPU. But again, VR is so freaking immersive that I stop noticing the resolution after a minute. The resolution is actually not bad at all in titles that have good AA like Aerofly FS 2 or Prepar3D, but in XP11 shimmering around autogen objects is horrendous, and it's easily visible even in 2D.
Also, biggest caveat of VR is the time you need to set it up properly. Plug in the headset, load Oculus Home, load SteamVR, load XP11, load flight, switch to VR, reset the view to align with the seat in the cockpit and your chair and yoke. Needs 5 minutes.
When flying via monitor, no stuff needs attention, just load a flight with your predefined set of views. With VR, you must fiddle a bit with default seating position every time, no matter if you use VRTools or not.

And yes, I truly hope XP12 will not ruin current VR experience I get in XP11. It's literally perfectly smooth, like in Aerofly FS 2. If XP12 comes with 20-30% lower fps because of volumetric clouds, detailed weather system and because it needs time to be fully optimized, it will hurt to stay with XP11 just to enjoy VR.

Edited December 15, 20214 yr by Pe11e

1 hour ago, Pe11e said:

Needs 5 minutes.

not actually something Ive noticed, probably the only current benefit of VR on linux to windows is my full "to cockpit" time is still around 30 seconds. But it will never make up for the time it took to get it working.

The shift in need for preflight prep however. ooof. Mentally preparing, all the flight details like flight planning, checking the weather - recovering afterwards, a lot more than 5 minutes. I was coming down from that NYC flight in the eurofighter for days...... I still get flashbacks of cutting through the skyscrapers.

I have a few "experiences" now in my portfolio.

R44, R66 and gazelle: several real world flights Ive done and a few I would like to as pdfs I can open in avi tab.

Spitfire: still learning to fly her. She's a handfull, but beautiful to fly. She has, however, killed me a few times. Last one was a flat spin into a housing estate in the North of the UK 😞

Typhoon and Su57: every now and again I still forget where stuff is in the cockpit of them, but other than that I can jump in and out of these and due to their speed pretty much eyeball any flight. The only preflight I did for the NYC flight was a quick check on a map before hand what heading NYC was from the airport.

Sparky744. Yeah. My favourite. Something like 6 pages of flight plans in co route. I have to keep deleting them.

 

What I actually meant was:

- pull out my Rift S box that is under a desk and place it on the sofa (20s)
- open the box and pull out Rift S, "untie" the cable so I can plug it in (20s)
- place Rift S on the chair, check the cable and plug it in into USB (then wait 10s), then into display port. (total 30s)
- sit, adjust the chair placement to be perfectly in front of the yoke and aligned (10s)
- put on the headset, wait for Oculus Dash to load, switch to desktop, load SteamVR, then load XP11 (30s)
- wait until the flight is loaded (this line is discarded since you must do it too in 2D)
- when in the cockpit, I will press "reset VR view" few times until the position aligns perfectly with the VC seat, my real chair and physical yoke. (can take up to 30s).

These steps alone are around 2 to 3 minutes in total, depending on few factors and excluding the flight loading that can take up to 4 minutes. That is my case, in my room, with my setup. When I have like 30-45 minutes of a spare time to fly (happens often), I usually skip flying for that day since I need 5 minutes to setup all up (yoke, throttle quadrant, pedals, VR), then another 3 to 5 minutes of bringing all stuff back to its place after I finished the flight. Overwhelming for me if I'm in the hurry, and exactly why, I will explain below.
In other words, if I don't have more than 45-60 minutes of spare time to fly, I will not hook VR, and no VR = no fly. 🙂 The thing is, once I get into VR and virtual cockpit - it's really hard to make myself quitting the sim in time! I usually end being late going to bed or whatever I need to do. I'm lost in VR, don't check the clock often (maybe every 30 mins), it's too enjoyable. So, one to two hours available for VR, minimums!

If I run via monitor, who cares, I can fly for 15 minutes and quit, nothing is lost. 🙂

Edited December 15, 20214 yr by Pe11e

I discovered Trakir, Had it for FSX but until XPLANE i barely used it, now I dont fly without it. Once ive taken off and in cruise I simply disable it. The thing is Im still in the real world, dont like it but im not running from it either, the world that is.

22 minutes ago, mjrhealth said:

I discovered Trakir, Had it for FSX but until XPLANE i barely used it, now I dont fly without it. Once ive taken off and in cruise I simply disable it. The thing is Im still in the real world, dont like it but im not running from it either, the world that is.

This is a thread about VR, not TrackIR, which is really a 2005 tech. Speaking of, TrackIR was extremely annoying and weird experience. Very very awkward. Why? The fact that you turn your head like 20-30 degrees, and in sim view rotates 90 or so, feels incredibly unnatural and weird to me, never got used to it. Not to mention that your eyes needs to be focused at the monitor, while you turning the head. For me that was so awkward, I couldn't even concentrate on flying properly. And the fact that I had glasses at the time, and when I rotate the head 20-30 degrees, I couldn't look at the monitor through the glasses anymore, let alone though the center of the lenses where that image is sharpest. 

I had laser eye surgery, diopter removal few months after getting VR, and what difference does it makes! I see slightly better FOV, not to mention crisper image.

Edited December 15, 20214 yr by Pe11e

1 hour ago, Pe11e said:

pull out my Rift S box that is under a desk and place it on the sofa (20s)
- open the box and pull out Rift S, "untie" the cable so I can plug it in (20s)
- place Rift S on the chair, check the cable and plug it in into USB (then wait 10s), then into display port. (total 30s)
- sit, adjust the chair placement to be perfectly in front of the yoke and aligned (10s)
- put on the headset, wait for Oculus Dash to load, switch to desktop, load SteamVR, then load XP11 (30s)
- wait until the flight is loaded (this line is discarded since you must do it too in 2D)
- when in the cockpit, I will press "reset VR view" few times until the position aligns perfectly with the VC seat, my real chair and physical yoke. (can take up to 30s).

I

press up and enter on a term window, xplane begins to start

click play on steamvr

click resume last flight in xplane

steamvr starts

xplane starts

pull the headset off the hanger to my right

press the insert key to switch to VR (instant)

put the headset on and look at my feet

find and press esc to reset the view

good to go. 

whole process doesnt really take noticably longer than

 

 

Edited December 15, 20214 yr by mSparks

Holy smokes, how your XP11 flight is loading THAT FAST? In my case, with ZL16 ortho, X-Europe adn default C172, it needs app. 3 minutes to spawn to LOWS, or LOWK or whatever airport around that area. At LYBE it spawn after 2 minutes, maybe 2 and a half.
But again I have hundreds of shortcut links in my Custom Scenery library, that are pointing to ortho tiles that are on another mechanical drive. I placed tiles that I fly over the most on M2 drive, and didn't noticed any loading or performance improvements.

28 minutes ago, Pe11e said:

Holy smokes, how your XP11 flight is loading THAT FAST?

It always did, this is actually marginally slower than my old machine when everything was on raid 0.

have xplane on the nvme drive

ortho on the much larger ssd

btrfs filesystem everywhere.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Btrfs

Does windows pretty quick to

But I dont have much use for that other than using VS community to compile autoatc and xtlua for windows users.

Edited December 15, 20214 yr by mSparks

1 hour ago, Pe11e said:

This is a thread about VR, not TrackIR, which is really a 2005 tech. Speaking of, TrackIR was extremely annoying and weird experience. Very very awkward. Why? The fact that you turn your head like 20-30 degrees, and in sim view rotates 90 or so, feels incredibly unnatural and weird to me, never got used to it. Not to mention that your eyes needs to be focused at the monitor, while you turning the head. For me that was so awkward, I couldn't even concentrate on flying properly. And the fact that I had glasses at the time, and when I rotate the head 20-30 degrees, I couldn't look at the monitor through the glasses anymore, let alone though the center of the lenses where that image is sharpest. 

I had laser eye surgery, diopter removal few months after getting VR, and what difference does it makes! I see slightly better FOV, not to mention crisper image.

Its about choices. I wear glasses too, due for new ones soon.

6 hours ago, VFXSimmer said:

For what its worth, no matter what this research says, frame rate requirements is a personal measure and not absolute.  For me, 90 fps is NOT needed to enjoy VR - a smooth 30fps is more than plenty.  I have a high tolerance for motion sickness so am able to wear a headset quite comfortably with 30fps for several hours (have had it on nearly 6 hours straight before).  The occasional "jutters and stutters" that drive some to distraction dont bother me at all.

The often bandied term "immersion" is also subjective and derives from a combination of effects.  To me, there is a balance tradeoff between frame rate and visual fidelity and in my personal case I tend to go more for fidelity as it lends just as much (perhaps more) to the suspension of disbelief as the higher frame rate.  Silky smooth 90fps+ playback is great, but if it requires an excessive simplification of the visuals to get there its not worth the compromise for me.

My argument isnt that you should just ignore frame rate, but to claim (in a later post) that its not worth going beyond "max" objects if you cant hit 90fps is in itself a subjective statement and not an absolute truth in so far as enjoyment of VR is concerned.

I very much doubt you will be flying with 30fps VR, your sim may be, but this is part of VR maturing, motion smoothing and reprojection have come a long way in upscaling what you see to acceptable framerates.

The bigger issue with 30fps is the control latency, for just messing around not so much of an issue, but the 60fps lower limits you see in commercial use are actually about control response and physics simulation rather than what you see.

The 744 autopilot for example will struggle to autoland with much less than 50fps in anything but nearly calm conditions, simply because less than that isn't enough data to correlate how the physics is affecting the aircraft, make the correct control adjustments and have them impact the flight path in a suitable amount of time. The other sim had some high comedy AP bugs almost certainly connected to this.

Something less stable like a helo and there is no chance of even a basic stable hover unless you forgo simulating the rotor turbulence completely, which is negative learning turtles all the way down.

Edited December 18, 20214 yr by mSparks