HotStart Challenger 650 First Impressions

[evaamo 549]

21 hours ago, Bjoern said:

It was a 50/50 chance. My preferred reply would of course have been "We also include a 'making of', detailing how everything works under the hood" and that would have made me click "Buy" faster than you could have imagined.

Totoritko (the main developer) has some videos in his youtube channel programming the systems in the CL650. Here is one, for example:

 

 

Hope this helps 🙂

 

[Andistio 44]

Unless it’s solely used for activation, Gizmo is required to operate the plane. Troubleshooting in the support forum always includes to not remove the Gizmo plug-in when removing all other plug-ins when in search of a culprit.

[akatham 9]

17 minutes ago, Mike44 said:

I don't think it uses Gizmo. The developer uses Ubuntu and developed the plugin from scratch for the TBM.

It uses gizmo (every x-aviation product uses it for DRM). In fact, the Challenger even triggered a bug in gizmo which can cause performance issues which is currently under investigation.

[Bjoern 1,157]

23 hours ago, GoranM said:

No. The code is completely interwoven through all the other systems. Everything the engines do depends on everything else. It’s very much a sim within a sim. 

I wasn't talking about the engines on their own, but the entire "sim within a sim". Or the GPS module with its varying accuracy due to satellite availability.

 

23 hours ago, GoranM said:

I thought that would get you. I was going to do it for free anyway, but one of the conditions for REGA’s cooperation was that we offer that variant for free. 

That's generous of them!

 

22 hours ago, Janov said:

The point I was trying to make is that a lot of jobs in aviation are - once you get over the initial thrill of flying an airplane - pretty limited and repetitive, like many other jobs, too. While I am lucky to have a diverse and varying network of destinations to fly to, there are many pilots that spend most of their lives flying ONE type of aircraft between half-a-dozen destinations...day in and day out.

Can you point me to some other aircraft add-ons for X-Plane that allow this type of diverse career and business interaction you look for?

Aircraft? No.

Plugins/services? Yes, although few strike my fancy.

 

21 hours ago, GCBraun said:

Seems like OnAir would be something for you. It is a subscription service, but relatively cheap. There are multiple tasks to accomplish and I find its economic simulation the best one available in flight sim. 

Subscription model and a Windows-only client are two no-gos. But thanks for the hint.

 

1 hour ago, evaamo said:

Totoritko (the main developer) has some videos in his youtube channel programming the systems in the CL650. Here is one, for example:

...

Hope this helps 🙂

Skipped through a few of them. Interesting for sure, but still not what I'm looking for. Thanks anyway.

[GoranM 3,766]

The CL650 is fully compatible with Windows, Mac and Linux.

1 hour ago, Mike44 said:

Goran are you doing the Citation X for xp12? The screenshot in the other thread looks superb:

Looking good, but no, that isn't mine.  I have done some work for Laminar in the past, but nothing for XP12 (Unless they re-use the limo and the Fuel Truck.)

 

[fogboundturtle 2,708]

I am trying out the non persistent mode.  How do I fuel ? There is no option for me and I can't use the xplane menu to fuel or the number just goes randomly crazy. 

[jon b 2,050]

Purchased: ....all I can say is WOW...JUST WOW...THAT IS GOOD !

[hollow1slo 246]

Purchased it too, what a masterpiece this is. A new bar for high-end addons is set.

[jcomm 5,939]

1 hour ago, jon b said:

Purchased: ....all I can say is WOW...JUST WOW...THAT IS GOOD !

Yep,

I even created a thread at another forum we both visit, in the area supposedly dedicated to aviation and simulation in general, where I compared it to PSX... Actually an unseen before high level of detail for a general purpose desktop flight simulation platform like X-Plane has made it's way into this superb CL650.

I had been following it's development because a friend and member of both sims was active at the developer Discord channel, so I knew what we were up to... But WOW is the word jon 🙂

Edited January 13, 2022 by Anatoli-Kagari9

[pcartier1960 9]

It's amazing! still can't figure out how they made such a complex plane with frame rates compared to the default Cessna 172 (just amazing) my X-Plane sim is now called the C650 Sim!

[Andistio 44]

9 hours ago, fogboundturtle said:

I am trying out the non persistent mode.  How do I fuel ? There is no option for me and I can't use the xplane menu to fuel or the number just goes randomly crazy. 

There are 2 topics on that in the X-Pilot forum. Hope that helps.

https://forums.x-pilot.com/forums/topic/22344-aux-tank-heavy-ive-refuelled-incorrectly-usually/

https://forums.x-pilot.com/forums/topic/22549-fly-without-fbo/

[EvidencePlz 276]

7 hours ago, Anatoli-Kagari9 said:

I even created a thread at another forum we both visit, in the area supposedly dedicated to aviation and simulation in general, where I compared it to PSX

which forum is that?

[jcomm 5,939]

4 hours ago, EvidencePlz said:

which forum is that?

Aerowinx PSX, my so far unique full detail sim, which might get a companion when I get this CL650 🙂

[jon b 2,050]

16 hours ago, Anatoli-Kagari9 said:

I even created a thread at another forum we both visit,

Ahh, I’ve not been over there for a number of years, perhaps I should as my RW 747 skills and knowledge are starting to fade fast😞 
 

Initially I had no interest in the CL650 as an aircraft  ( I do now , having looked around it’s virtual counterpart I think it’s a beautiful machine, and I love the sloping centre console) However from the point of view of a simulation enthusiast I found the concept of this product very interesting indeed.

I also felt that as a  high end concept and statement piece in PC simulation  I would like to show my support for the project  financially by purchasing a copy.
I think the importance of this project goes way beyond that of the product itself.  It is in a way a sounding board for the future of flight simulation add ons, not only for XP but also P3D and PC simulation in general. Is there a sustainable and profitable market for the premium high end , high fidelity aircraft add on, or is it inevitable that the future will be low fidelity but pretty looking aircraft produced in rapid succession and sold at lower cost but to a much larger less demanding audience?

I think there needs to be both, and I am as guilty as anyone of gorging myself in the winter sales buying a hanger full of cheap good looking but lightly simulated aircraft. I fly them once around the circuit before losing interest. We are seeing lots of these relatively cheap and uncomplicated models crop up daily on the Microsoft platform, however there is a marked decline, sadly ,in the production of high end simulations for P3D.

XP ,interestingly ,is seeing what can only be described as a sudden explosion of high fidelity simulations, with 2021 seeing the release of the JF BAe 146,  Toliss A340, Felis 747 and the FlyJsim Q400.

And now in early 2022 the CL650 has just blown the roof off of high end , and has smashed through the $100 glass ceiling for XP aircraft, and it has done so with complete and utter justification in my view.

I think a lot of developers will now be watching this project with great interest and deciding on just how far to push their own limits and wondering will that extra effort in development necessitating a higher retail price have the audience to make their projects worthwhile. ( I’m thinking of flight factor and their new ‘pro’ products as I have a vested interest in getting a really high end 787 😉)

I believe they will, and it is why I believe the CL650 is such an important product as it is trail blazing a new era of high fidelity simulation for XP. 
 

Modern computing power is allowing developers to go a level of detail to was beyond fantasy only a few years ago but it’s inevitable that costs significantly extra development time and so the prices for top end products will rise, but in my view this should be embraced and not scorned. A willingness from enthusiast simmers to pay for ultra high end will in turn encourage more developers to push into the upper echelons and deliver ultra high end.
 

Yes, that’s ok for me to say I have a disposable income to spend on my simulation hobby , I realise not everyone is as fortunate, but I would just say this. It doesn’t seem very long ago at all I was a teenage aircraft enthusiast in the 1980’s washing pots at my local pub for a minimum wage. I saved up these wages and proudly bought the copy of Sublogic flight simulator 2 for Commodore 64 that I’d been drooling over on the shelf of a local software shop for weeks. I can’t remember the exact price but is would have been well over 20 hours of hard washing up done over several  weeks to have saved enough. That basic, yet at the time mind blowing simulator was a real outlet for me and it  developed a passion not just for aircraft but for actually flying them and the art of pilotage. Little did I know at the time but only 15 years later still  fuelled by that passion Instilled in me by flight simulation I would actually be in  command of a real world 747. My point is this..there are worse things to spend your money on ! You never know where this hobby will lead you.
 

I’ve been lucky  in the past to be involved in a small part, in what were in their day equally high end simulations and have  spent time talking with developers over dinner about all the physics and maths they used to recreate an aircraft on a PC. Although this was fascinating and even though I was now aware of it I still had a hard time spotting it in action on the actual simulation.

This is where  the CL650 differs, being able to call up those study pages and actually see all those simulated physics at work is incredible. This simulation would be a beautiful asset for those on a college or university course on aeronautical engineering.

it’s not just what they’ve done, but rather they way that they’ve done it, recreating an aircraft and its systems using a from the ground up physics simulation that makes this simulation so special and well worthy of its asking price.
 

 

 

 

Edited January 14, 2022 by jon b

[GoranM 3,766]

Wow!  Thank you for that post, @jon b.

I'll be happy to share this with Saso (skiselkov), who coded all the systems and physics.

Edited January 14, 2022 by Ray Proudfoot
Long quoted post removed.