Is everyone a software pirate?

[Jeff Nielsen 1,386]

Btw Jeff, Are you saying our stuff is crap and isn't even worth pirating now???"you can rest easy there" So what you're saying is my other developer friends can't rest easy?I see you're also a beta tester for another Friend of mine, Francois. What do you think he'd say to all of this?You've accepted piracy of your own stuff? I'll let that one speak for itself.Keep on talking friend....ROFL

[Guest X-ray]

Hello,As I'm getting to know more fellow FS users, I'm getting the impression that I'm the only person on earth that pays for his FS addons.Of course, luckily, this is not correct. But I really start thinking that a small amount of FS users pay for the whole community. Addons are being passed to others via direct file transfer, I've seen server addresses with a directory full of installers and codes, and so on. It's not a minority that's doing it.I know there's a form on AVSIM to report these things, but it's still hard to report someone you consider as a friend. I can of course tell them that they shouldn't do that, but then you get answers like "everyone does it", or "I don't have the money for it", ...Personally I'm in support of even more harsh software protection in the software. I don't mind activating my product, and having it's license checked by a server everytime it runs. I do not consider this as a privacy issue. I bought all my software, so I have nothing to fear.What do you guys think of it? What do you tell a software pirate? Or do you agree that "not having the money" is a valid reason for pirating software?Kind regards,Bart

[Roger Mazengarb 0]

G'day Jeff,>That's not even close to a justification. Justification? for what? I'm sorry but you have totally misunderstood my post. I'm not trying to justify anything but simply stating that whilst everyone is posting emotively about piracy, the copyright laws in Australia are about to be ammended. Cheers,Roger

[G7USL 117]

I would just like to add that ALL the products that Jeff Greth has video'd, I have bought. They really do show how good they areNow you can't get more publicity than that?IMO Jeff is alongside the best video makers available so, don't bite that hand that feeds you.There IS a difference between promoting and pirating and Jeff's video's are worth more respect than is being showed here.

[Jeff Nielsen 1,386]

I must be loosing it. What does that have to with the price of tea in China because he makes videos and how does that relate to the subject at hand?

[Guest FireChief]

>I noticed that no one commented on my use of pirated addons. >I'm not going to explain it all over again, but basically I>use them to determine whether I'll buy something or not. Do you steal a car and use if for a couple weeks to see if you like it too? Lets be honest here...you are boosting the software so you don't have to pay for it. Plain and simple.Rob

[Guest SageWisdom]

>I must be loosing it. What does that have to with the price>of tea in China because he makes videos and how does that>relate to the subject at hand?Nope youre not loosing it. He's stealing the software and trying to rationalize it. Never heard of "moral relativism"?

[G7USL 117]

......And I don't suppose you have ever 'taped' a program that you wanted to see, shown at a time when you wasn't there to see it eh?Never bought a pirated video?If you have, (and who that owns a video recorder hasn't?) dosen't that give you the same label then?

[Guest richb]

Bart, I see I am coming into this discussion almost a year late but its also seemingly still alive.I have made quite a few copies of DVD movies, for my own use as backups. Also I am guilty of downloading pirated "warez" software (computer utilities). Much to my regret these were infected with viruses and took me many days to get my system back in order. NEVER AGAIN! I personally have not bothered with commercial programs for either FS or MSTS. From some of these that friends have most don't seem worth the money paid as compared to some of the great freeware add-ons available. So why bother downloading a pirate copy and risk some infection! Be that as it may, I am sure pirates will continue to copy the stuff and peoples will either buy these copies or download them from eastern european sites. The problem is un-policeable and a lot of countries are not signatures to international copyright laws.As far as increasing protection of software, it is useless as a pirate will figure an over-ride in no time. Columbia/Sony video developed what they thought was a great protection of its DVD's and within a few days an fix was available on the 'net!Developers of programs will just have to write into their profit margin a percentage for loss through pirates.Richard

[G7USL 117]

>I must be loosing it. What does that have to with the price>of tea in China because he makes videos and how does that>relate to the subject at hand?It's got nothing to do with the price of tea in china (Not the subject in hand!)He makes video's because he is given a free copy and asked to do it. Such is the quality of his work! To make the video's are you saying that he should first of all, buy them?As I have already said, his video's are good enough to actually greatly enhance the sales of those products, why else would Holger ask him?BTW, don't bother asking him to do one for you, you might not like his answer!

[Jeff Nielsen 1,386]

Actaully no, I haven't bought a pirated movie. I would never stand for the quality and since my uncle is a Hollywood producer I don't think he'd like that. Besides which we get all the pre-academy movies for review anyways.And I was also to lazy to tape anything to show my friends for another thing.Besides which there is a big difference there. If you taped a movie and charged people to watch it then you deserve to go to jail.I doubt you charged people for yout tapes, right?? I thought so.

[Jeff Nielsen 1,386]

That's not what he was saying and you know it....lol. He clearly stated that he would take the product to see if he liked it for personal use then buy it afterwards if he liked it or delete it if he didn't.My beef was to do that he was assisting the people pirating in further committing their crimes.Don't even try to turn this around to making videos..lol. Not even close. As I said if you are given something then fine, if you are not, then you have stolen. Is it that difficult for you to understand that??

[Jeff Nielsen 1,386]

I'm also going to do you another favor because I still don't think you fully understand what is piracy and what is stealing.For your sake I'll use the movies and TV as an example since you wanted to use that one on me and change the subject.When you talk about pirated movies, what you are buying in most cases, I say again most cases, is a movie where someone has illegally recorded the movie from the theatre or stolen it from the studio somehow and then selling it. That movie has not been released for general broadcast to a TV station. You are stealing from them, not only their property but their money because you didn't pay them for the distribution rights. You are also pirating if your are distributing by selling it or uploading it somewhere for distribution (i.e. downloading). You are also pirating and stealing in this case even if you are not charging people for the product.Now, if a movie or TV show has been released to the networks that falls under a different set of laws. Here in the US all broadcast (TV-radio-wireline-wireless, teletype, etc.) the FCC regulates all broadcast stations, even the little 2 way radios you buy in walmart, and state the rule whether or not you have to have a station license for you to operate them.Now back to the subject at hand. In the US the law says if it can be transmitted from a PUBLICLY licensed station then it can be heard/seen, legally by anyone. Say for instance if a TV station is broadcasting a movie. You may tape it for your own use, BUT.......YOU STILL CANNOT DISTRIBUTE IT IN ANY FASHION FOR SALE OR OTHERWISE. That means if you upload it you're pirating that station's material because they HAVE PURCHASED THE BROADCAST RIGHTS from the distributer which in turn has purchased those rights under a seperate contract from the production company which in turn PAYS THE CAST, CREW, employees, etc.Also, you may not use any public TV stations "material" in any advertising either, without an agreement. In most cases they still won't give an agreement either. I know because I've checked into it. If you want the footage then you go tape it yourself.Is that a little more clear? If I forgot anything let me know would you?

[Guest jboweruk]

Hi jgreth,OSS make some fine add-ons, they sell through the Flight1 wrapper, so the 30 day thing still applies anyway. I still don't agree with any form of Piracy, sure we've all done it in the past,(not full scale but just owning stuff that wasn't legit) in my case before I worked in the IT industry, and learned that it does hurt ppl.As an example take Dan over at FSPassengers, there's a guy who singlehandedly spent 18 months writing that program, pretty much had to give up his job to the best of my knowledge to finish it. Now tell me that by copying it and flogging it amongst even your closest pals is not hurting him in the wallet. Of course it is, he needs to get a return on that commitment, he has a wife and I believe a child to support. If you take money from something that isn't yours to sell then it's theft, pure and simple. There's no justification for it. As to 'borrowing' it first then sorry but although Jeff does seem to get a little riled up I do agree with him, you are downloading it from somewhere, and that somewhere is usually a nefarious site who are nothing more than criminals. Sure if you are given it by the developer to film then fine. I don't know if I've seen any of your work but there have been some fine vids that have 'convinced me' to buy stuff, or at least made the final decision for me. A lot of devs now are offering a 'try first' period on their stuff, but word of mouth can also at least give you an idea of whether something is up to standard or not. Yes we do buy blind, and I wish more devs would allow demos of their products especially the pricey stuff, but if you are disappointed in a product then just don't buy from them again.I've only been bitten like that a couple of times, and don't buy their stuff any more. For obvious reasons I won't go into who it was, but you can rest assured Jeff it wasn't OSS. In fact a bit off topic but I'm still eagerly awaiting your Dornier 328.

[Guest jgreth123]

Hey John, Thanks for your response. Good to know that OSS works through the F1 wrapper. I don't fly over in England so his work wouldn't be much use to me, but I have heard of his airport. Concerning your friend Dan, I even said that if I like something, I buy it. If I don't, I delete it. He's not losing any money from my situation. If someone uses the F1 wrapper or something similar, then I CAN outright buy it and return it if I'm unhappy with it.To Jeff and anyone else thinking that I'm some warez junkie, I don't download from any websites or anything. I have a friend who is also a MSFS developer. He happens to 1) have a lot more money than me ( single, where as I'm married with 2 kids ), and 2) has a lot of free time. Most of the time, I just go to his house and check something out, but being as my computer isn't quite as state-of-the-art as his, he will often take 15 minutes ( since he knows the common security systems, it takes him all of 15 - 20 minutes to circumvent it, so it's not like it's even a huge inconvenience for him ) out of his time to crack it and let me check it out at home. He does NOT upload his 'work-arounds' to any websites nor does he even host them to pass them around. He specifically cracks them for me to see because he knows what kind of financial situation I'm often in when a new addon comes out. To clarify as well, he BUYS them item ( or is flat out given to him being he's in the 'circle' ). Seeing as we've known each other for the past 10+ years, he trusts me. Technically I'm not supporting any pirating sites, so you can't really say that 'somewhere I'm supporting it' yada yada.. I'm not. I just don't think it's a black and white issue. There is a gray area.To Jeff, No I never said a word about the quality of your work. I merely stated that I've never touched your software. Someone's a bit worked up perhaps?