My 2022 Build (with pics!)

[martin-w 3,234]

28 minutes ago, ryanbatcund said:

74 but the highest was 80

 

Very good temps for Prime. 

[ryanbatc 12,820]

I've got much more items installed...  I've been able to enjoy one or two flights so far.

While I've not done any highly scientific experiments/comparisons between this 12700K/ 32gb ddr5 and the 4790K / 32gb ddr3 system I am getting at a minimum double fps in almost all areas (sometimes triple fps).

I flew NYC area in the Longitude with WT G3000 mod - that plane has always been a fps hitter for me.  Typically I'd see 16-19 fps and now I see 35-45 depending on the view.

These shots are fairly dark but they had a LOD of 300 and ultra settings, at 1440P - and plenty of low thick clouds.  Also the screenshots are taken while flying at about 250 kias not paused.

JFK_fpstest1 by Ryan Butterworth, on Flickr

JFK_fpstest2 by Ryan Butterworth, on Flickr

JFK_fpstest3 by Ryan Butterworth, on Flickr

Edited March 6, 2022 by ryanbatcund

[Reset XPDR 1,271]

Those screen shots show a good balance between CPU and GPU load, so well done with your upgrade!

[ryanbatc 12,820]

4 hours ago, Reset XPDR said:

Those screen shots show a good balance between CPU and GPU load, so well done with your upgrade!

Yeah I think I'd like to get my GPU in the green a little more....or the CPU more in the yellow.  Naturally I'm GPU limited but everything is fairly smooth - it's nice to be able to enjoy the visuals with smooth performance.  I see you're at 4k and you use VR?  How is the performance in VR with that setup?  I think if I had a 3080 I could probably tackle VR.  Also do you think we're at the point where the hardware can power a good VR experience?  I have minimal time with VR mostly in DCS, but the headsets I tried (recent occulus) were not great.  The quality was better than a few years back but still seemed less than say 1080P monitor.  DCS was by far the best clarity and experience compared to the minimal time I spent in P3D v4 and XP11.

[Reset XPDR 1,271]

9 hours ago, ryanbatc said:

How is the performance in VR with that setup?

It's pretty good but I am very GPU bound, even with a 3080. I get 25+ FPS at high and some ultra settings with a resolution of ~2800x2800 per eye, which is roughly double the number of pixels that 4K has to push. I am OK with lower FPS but a lot of VR users like higher FPS, so have to turn some of the settings towards medium to get 35+ FPS.

 

9 hours ago, ryanbatc said:

Also do you think we're at the point where the hardware can power a good VR experience?

I'd say we are another video card generation or 2 and some higher quality optics in next gen VR headsets away from it being a truly stunning experience. Nonetheless, it is good enough now that I fly MSFS pretty much exlusively in VR on my setup and get an enjoyable experience.

[ryanbatc 12,820]

38 minutes ago, Reset XPDR said:

It's pretty good but I am very GPU bound, even with a 3080. I get 25+ FPS at high and some ultra settings with a resolution of ~2800x2800 per eye, which is roughly double the number of pixels that 4K has to push. I am OK with lower FPS but a lot of VR users like higher FPS, so have to turn some of the settings towards medium to get 35+ FPS.

 

I'd say we are another video card generation or 2 and some higher quality optics in next gen VR headsets away from it being a truly stunning experience. Nonetheless, it is good enough now that I fly MSFS pretty much exlusively in VR on my setup and get an enjoyable experience.

That's kind of what I thought too.  I think there's a really nice headset...aero something...but it's like 2k.  Ooofda.  But then you need a system to power it.  I truly think people who think VR is ready now are happy to part with the amazing visual display found on a nice 2k or 4k screen.  I only recently went to a 1440p resolution but the difference from 1080P was awesome - also got a slightly larger screen.

I get it - the feeling of being in the cockpit is awesome...I had that with DCS.  But had to work so hard to see some of the instruments...unless they were directly in front of me.  Probably not great for people's eyes either hehe.  I think most pediatrician's recommend that kids under 12 shouldn't use VR due to optical development.  All that sounds like I'm being a negative Nancy lol...  However I did enjoy it in DCS and look forward to it again hopefully in 3-4 years with better tech.

[TheFamilyMan 279]

Congrats on your new build.  Seeing you're curious about VR performance, using the rig in my sig here's the setting I use for VR in MSFS to get 40 fps in good weather and around 33 in bad.  I had this build together nearly 18 months before I got a 3080 ti which retired my 5 YO 1070. Having a 2K monitor driven by the 3080 ti enabled all setting at Ultra and a razor crisp 130 Render Scale, but that was at 30 fps vsync (which was glassy smooth).  Running unlimited FPS with those fully pegged setting yielded 50+ fps though with stutters.

I think that evga rightly put to moniker "Ultra" in the name of the gcard I bought for it perfectly describes it MSRP.  Sheer luck and a total disregard for money got me this card from a local computer shop which received an evga shipment the day I happened to stop by to get a new external backup drive.  Good luck with your pursuit of a gcard upgrade, though with your 1080 ti I imagine you're still all smiles with that new build.

Edited March 8, 2022 by TheFamilyMan

[ckyliu 1,749]

On 3/3/2022 at 4:58 AM, ryanbatc said:

I'm not certain on the case fan direction.  The arrow on the bottom points to the non-main logo side.  In other words the air would suck in from the front of my case, and exhaust out the tops and rear (or that's how I made the arrows point).  What do people think?

That's fairly standard to suck in cool air from the front and exhaust it from the rear and top. All the heat producing stuff tends to be at the back of the case so this works well, allowing the bridge chips, M.2 and VRM etc to get some cooling before the CPU thermally dumps into the air mass. Also reduces noise a little intaking from the front, since your "blowing" the sound into the case.

On 3/3/2022 at 10:02 AM, martin-w said:

Yep, that will work. It looks like you have three fans blowing in and three fans (including AIO) blowing out. So a balanced airflow. Balanced or somewhat positive is fine, to avoid too much dust build-up.

As I do ventilation for my day job I really dislike positive ventilation in cooling applications; yes it does reduce dust (it's how clean rooms are setup) but positive pressure in the case creates weird turbulence, air flow and pockets of still air that are not good for cooling so I prefer a slightly negative pressure for superior cooling although this does mean the case will potentially in-fill through non-filtered gaps (I tend to plug these with filter paper). It's not as simple as "three fans in, three fans out" must be roughly balanced - if you are overly concerned about this you need to find the CFM or L/min volume of each fan connected to external air can move at full power and then tweak the speed curves to suit. Even if all the chassis fans are identical, the GPU will intake from the case and exhaust to outside so that skews everything. And bear in mind the GPU and PSU will move very little air when at idle.

Edited March 9, 2022 by ckyliu

[ryanbatc 12,820]

7 hours ago, TheFamilyMan said:

  Good luck with your pursuit of a gcard upgrade, though with your 1080 ti I imagine you're still all smiles with that new build.

Yeah - I have told a few people actually.... I'm going to stick with this card for hopefully a year at least....  Literally I am blessed to have a wife who is supportive (usually hehe) of new components etc.  That being said even I'm not certain if dropping 1500 USD on a new 3080 ti is the best move for me.  If I already a VR headset I'd consider it for sure.

 

40 minutes ago, ckyliu said:

That's fairly standard to suck in cool air from the front and exhaust it from the rear and top. All the heat producing stuff tends to be at the back of the case so this works well, allowing the bridge chips, M.2 and VRM etc to get some cooling before the CPU thermally dumps into the air mass. Also reduces noise a little intaking from the front, since your "blowing" the sound into the case.

 

Thanks, I might have had my older case sucking in from the top- not sure what led me to do that genius idea

[martin-w 3,234]

8 hours ago, ckyliu said:

As I do ventilation for my day job I really dislike positive ventilation in cooling applications; yes it does reduce dust (it's how clean rooms are setup) but positive pressure in the case creates weird turbulence, air flow and pockets of still air that are not good for cooling so I prefer a slightly negative pressure for superior cooling

 

I agree with you and also disagree with you.

I used to have the same opinion quite a few years ago. I based that opinion on the fact that I used to be a pro photographer and in the darkroom where I worked we had a huge Repromaster Camera. The camera, as high as your chest, was illuminated by two huge banks of halogen lighting. The heat generated was very unpleasant. Upon my request, my company fitted a fan. The fan could be set to extract or ingest fresh air from outside. Unfortunately, others that used the darkroom insisted on setting the fan to blow cool air into the room. The result was that there was very little reduction in temperature. When I used the darkroom I set it to exhaust and the result was that the room temp plummeted in seconds. Cool air was sucked in around the gaps in the doors at high velocity. 

So yes, its absolutely true that there's a huge amount of atmospheric pressure pressing down on all of us. And that atmospheric pressure does the job for us and equalises the lower pressure caused by exhausting fans. Truly the most efficient way to cool an enclosure is with negative pressure.

However... having built many PC's, many of which were fairly heavily overclocked, I'm fully aware of the need to "spot cool" certain components. Components like VRM's GPU's etc. Thus we find ourselves requiring fans directed at key components, thus we edge toward positive pressure.

And yes, after building many PC's over the years and experiencing  slightly positive pressure, its clear that the reduction in dust build up is very significant. I very rarely have to clean out my PC. And its worth remembering that if a PC does suffer a significant dust build up then temp issues do manifest themselves. Dust build-up is indeed a major issue for component temp control and longevity. 

In regard to air pockets and turbulence, its not a problem in practice. Modern enclosures have a very well ventilated rear panel so that air can escape with ease, they are designed with positive pressure as a consideration. And of course we aren't talking about a hugely positive pressure with very little escape route, we are talking about a slightly positive pressure with an easy escape route for the air stream courtesy of a well vented rear panel. The proof of the pudding is in the eating though, and modern motherboards and graphics cards have numerous temperature sensors. When looking at those temperatures none of my components have temp issues.

This positive/negative pressure debate has raged for years. There is no wrong or right. Its a personal choice.  

Edited March 9, 2022 by martin-w

[martin-w 3,234]

7 hours ago, ryanbatc said:

Thanks, I might have had my older case sucking in from the top- not sure what led me to do that genius idea

 

Depending on your needs, its not necessarily wrong. JJ from Asus recommends that configuration for cooling VRM's. 

[martin-w 3,234]

8 hours ago, ckyliu said:

if you are overly concerned about this you need to find the CFM or L/min volume of each fan connected to external air can move at full power and then tweak the speed curves to suit. Even if all the chassis fans are identical, the GPU will intake from the case and exhaust to outside so that skews everything. And bear in mind the GPU and PSU will move very little air when at idle.

 

I don't think me or anyone I know is overly concerned. Yes, I'm aware that the GPU exhausts too, the degree to which depends if its a blower style card or not. As for PSU's... modern PSU and modern cases are configured for downward facing fans. Air is drawn into the PSU from below the case and vented outside. Thus no impact on internal  airflow. 

Balanced pressure would be my ideal setup if I was fussy. However, as you rightly say, configuring a precisely balanced airflow is almost impossible, especially when we have multiple components with their own PWM fan control based on different sources. Hence why those who favour balanced end up with slightly positive to be on the safe side.

As I said, there is no right or wrong, its personal preference. It also depends on our objectives. Either way works. 

Edited March 9, 2022 by martin-w

[TheFamilyMan 279]

On 3/8/2022 at 5:07 PM, ryanbatc said:

I'm going to stick with this card for hopefully a year at least.... 

Given that we're stuck from here on out spending $1,500 for a top end gcard (I did), you're wise to get more mileage on your 1080 ti and then get the most up to date card when you find yourself needing to, so that that new one may also last you as long (I sure hope mine does).  The top end is now targeting 4k and VR performance; if those resolutions aren't needed consider that that sort of expenditure may be overkill.

[martin-w 3,234]

7 hours ago, TheFamilyMan said:

so that that new one may also last you as long (I sure hope mine does).

 

You might be okay given your mysteriously low DDR6X Junction Temp. 😁

Not sure about the rest of us though. Micron ignore you when you email them, NVidia drag their feet for over a year when Linux users ask for the facility to view junction temp  and say its a "claimed" junction temp for Windows. EVGA aren't bothered unless it throttles, and no doubt last the warranty period. 

Copper shim mods knock a huge 30 degrees of the temp, so clearly the coolers are lacking.

Nobody seems to have a clue how long the chips will last  at 94 degrees and as high as 100 for some.

I've hijacked Ryan's thread, I'll shut up now. 😺

Edited March 10, 2022 by martin-w

[Clutch Cargo 384]

Just came across this read and Ryan got to say I luv the play-by-play as you built your PC.  Even though I have built all my PCs for the last 30 years I still get a tad nervous because I don't build them every day.  For me, there's like a 7-10 year gap in between.  I got a chuckle when you talked about having a 2500k.  I'm typing right now on my i7-2700K!

So my new build parts all came in yesterday and am about to embark on the new build.  All new fangled stuff... AIO liquid cooler (always swore by Noctua on all my builds),  M2 SSDs, DDR5, RGB stuff, gotta get al reacquainted, ha.  Threw a bunch a money into this ($4500), but I do use it for my design work and I am on the PC 8 hours a day, and I hope to use is it for many years like my last build.

Just wanna say enjoyed your series here an picked up on some nice tips.  😉