Dynamic Optimizer needed?

[Noel 4,572]

I'm noticing as I add more and more complexity it's become more common to have considerably poorer performance when landing at complex terminals.  Prior to installing Simple Traffic and Bejan's Seasons, and prior to traffic departures finally reappearing now post SU8, I could always predict where I needed to adjust Terrain and Object LOD in pre-flight in order to insure having a smooth landing upon arrival w/o the need to stop and adjust settings, which I really never like to do.  Today, flying out of KIAD in the 787-X HD, LOD's at 200/200, all else at Ultra, by 2-3 miles out from FSDT's KORD I could tell things were going to get dicey quickly.  So I stopped the sim, and dialed back LODs to 100/100, which I've never even come close to having to do previously.  KORD was very busy w/ lots of incoming and outgoing traffic, so it's no wonder there is a performance cost for this.  LOD 100/100 was certainly sufficient to avoid even a minor stutter.  What I find compelling about an dynamic optimizer for addressing this sort of thing is this:  when you go into options and change any settings as I did w/ the LODs, the change is done instantly, and there is no need to repaint the screen.  This is in stark contrast to P3D that would require a screen redraw and so increasing autogen or other seemed like it would be nye to impossible to execute dynamically.  That does not seem to be the case w/ MSFS, which to me suggests indeed variables *could* be altered dynamically w/ disrupting fluidity.  The closer you get to touchdown, the less LOD matters as this is largely obscured by near field buildings and scenery.  LOD is the biggest single factor affecting the main thread for my configuration.  Further, reducing LOD from 200 to 100 is not even perceptible to me on this last approach to KORD.  So to have this done in the background, with no need to stop the sim and adjust, seems like some relatively low hanging fruit to optimize performance.  I mean after all the idea of poorer performance at arrival v departure is a recurrent complaint for many in MSFS.

What do you think?  I bring it up to promote the idea because if this was as effective as it seems it could be, could have a significant market, what with the sim getting progressively more complex over time as complex addons increase, weather is enhanced further we hope, etc.

[RALF9636 2,026]

I absolutely agree. I don't know why something like that hasn't been included from the beginning. Me and others have suggested that more than a year ago already, but it has been ignored so far by Asobo unfortunately.

 

Edited March 11, 2022 by RALF9636

[jer2929 91]

Yup. +1. Would be wonderful and definitely needed and I've also suggested it a number of times on the forums.

[Ricardo41 5,965]

Not sure what it was called, but I think there was an addon for FS9 that pretty much reduced scenery complexity to 0 during crucial phases of flight. Can't remember what it was called. 

[Ianrivaldosmith 5,317]

There was a good app on xplane that did this. 

[VFXSimmer 1,310]

Sounds like a good idea.  Probably best introduced into the software at the point where the engine and graphics settings are stable so you can do better optimization predictions.  Now may be a good time?

The XPlane one was called 3jpfs and used a lua script to dynamically adjust datarefs.  It worked pretty well, but could introduce stutters when the dynamic adjustments were made.  Everyone using a dynamic optimization scheme should go in with the understanding that stutters CAN occur.  To be fair, they werent terrible in 3jfp (your opinions may vary), and it did allow you to enjoy more detail in the foreground and extended draw distance in the background when you were in lower traffic areas, for example, without having to let go of the controls.

[wim123 765]

1 hour ago, Ricardo41 said:

Not sure what it was called, but I think there was an addon for FS9 that pretty much reduced scenery complexity to 0 during crucial phases of flight. Can't remember what it was called. 

yes, i remember it, i had it and it worked.

[GSalden 4,718]

1 hour ago, Ricardo41 said:

Not sure what it was called, but I think there was an addon for FS9 that pretty much reduced scenery complexity to 0 during crucial phases of flight. Can't remember what it was called. 

Don’t remember the name anymore but I had it back then.

At approach scenery complexity was reduced in order to try keeping the used framerate…It worked quiet well.

P3D has FFTF Dynamic…

 

[Mace 1,968]

4 hours ago, Noel said:

What do you think?  I bring it up to promote the idea because if this was as effective as it seems it could be, could have a significant market, what with the sim getting progressively more complex over time as complex addons increase, weather is enhanced further we hope, etc.

I could see a market for this.

MSFS could maybe use performance profiles.  For example, I could have one called "Heathrow", which would be a saved profile of settings for really busy airports (lots of density, lots of AI, etc.).   Lets say I'm simulating a bizjet flight from Chicago O'Hare to Branson MO -- KORD would be a high-demand area, whereas Branson's new airport would be low demand.  A way to quickly switch settings would be nice.  Also, vice-versa flight -- Branson to KORD, you could dial down the settings for your KORD landing, to avoid any performance problems there.

[Noel 4,572]

I agree performance profiles are worthwhile.  I think what's most import is the automated, background dynamic optimization so there is no need to stop to 'quickly switch settings'.  It's the 'stop' part that's the most problematic for me.  Exactly how to program it is u for grabs and it's easy to imagine a couple of approaches that would do this:

1. Assess the rate of increase and absolute value of the MainThread in milliseconds, and when a preset threshold is reached Object and Terrain LOD is reduced until a specified lower threshold is reached.  This might be on approach.   Or...
2. Assess proximity to the threshold bar of the runway you are vectored towards, and when say 4 miles out from touchdown and 3000' AGL O and T LOD are reduced to a preset lower limit, down from initial values at start of the flight, or something along those lines.
3. Any number of other schemes to dynamically adjust LOD in real time, including perhaps frame rate.

[GSalden 4,718]

2 hours ago, Noel said:

I agree performance profiles are worthwhile.  I think what's most import is the automated, background dynamic optimization so there is no need to stop to 'quickly switch settings'.  It's the 'stop' part that's the most problematic for me.  Exactly how to program it is u for grabs and it's easy to imagine a couple of approaches that would do this:

1. Assess the rate of increase and absolute value of the MainThread in milliseconds, and when a preset threshold is reached Object and Terrain LOD is reduced until a specified lower threshold is reached.  This might be on approach.   Or...
2. Assess proximity to the threshold bar of the runway you are vectored towards, and when say 4 miles out from touchdown and 3000' AGL O and T LOD are reduced to a preset lower limit, down from initial values at start of the flight, or something along those lines.
3. Any number of other schemes to dynamically adjust LOD in real time, including perhaps frame rate.

Seems like good ideas.

The lower you fly the less need for a high LOD value.  So this could be dynamically used to keep the framerate to a certain (realistic) minimum value….

[CFIJose 5,485]

I agree that we need an automatic optimization depending on where we want to fly. I find myself dropping my  terrain LOD if I fly in areas with add-on cities and airports. I wish I could just set the sliders to 100 and get smooth performance at every scenery, but even then, I still have to drop the LOD to avoid the dreaded panning sluggishness.

[Noel 4,572]

2 hours ago, DJJose said:

I still have to drop the LOD to avoid the dreaded panning sluggishness

DJ, do you have Off Screen Terrain Precaching maxed?  Also, both that and NV Control Panel's Low Latency set to Ultra make panning always best.

[Noel 4,572]

Well, suggestions on what Dev might be interesting/capable of attempting this?  I have sent the concept to one, but there must be so many who could get into the SDK to do something like this.

[Benjamin J 751]

P3D had an app that did this, I think it was called Dynamic FFTF, by… FSPS…? There was a variable that could be changed on the fly called FFTF, or fiber frame time fraction. That app would change it automatically along parameters that the user could set, allowing for smooth departures and arrivals, and good visuals at cruise.

I would be surprised if MSFS didn’t have a similar set of variables that apps could make use of, given the shared history between these platforms, unless, of course, this is something that LM made accessible on the fly only in P3D.