4 hours ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

he number of FORCED updates for MSFS makes these downloads mandatory

That's right and once again, you hit a button, leave and come back in a hour or whatever and it's all done there is NO NEED to 'tend' the install process.  I've done 3 entire installs, an initial and two complete reinstalls and while TIME is involved, that's largely the entire extent of it, and if you have good bandwidth then it will go by quite fast.   If you don't whoopdee do go do something and return and it's all done.

9 minutes ago, Noel said:

Ray--this is where the OP is coming from so of course I'm going to compare to what he is familiar with.  Plus, I'm real familiar w/ P3D having used it for 10y and recall all the hours and attention it takes to update and install every addon of every kind.  This is one of the very pleasant changes in MSFS where you hardly need pay attention to anything for a complete reinstall which is hardly the case w/ P3D/FSX.

But he never said what addons he has bought. He intimated he had a 3rd party weather program and perhaps some 3rd party airports. Maybe mesh too but nothing specific.

Of course no third party weather program is available since Asobo won’t release the info required. So no historical weather which he may not know about.

4 minutes ago, abrams_tank said:

Yup, this is the brilliance of MSFS.  Everyone has saved so much money on 3rd party add-ons that enhance the graphics of the simulator.  And MSFS users also don't have to buy an extra hard drive to store ortho.  That's a lot of money saved there.  

So are these developers who have mostly abandoned P3D wasting their time developing for MSFS? Might they have been wasting their time? Can they survive if what you hint at is correct?

Personally I would not rush to purchase any addons at the beginning.  Enjoy the sim, if you like Airliners then download the FBW A320.  At the beginning the biggest frustration is setting up your hardware and learning how to set custom views.  There are some good YouTube videos on this.  Once you are comfortable you can figure out the addon side of things.

6 minutes ago, Noel said:

That's right and once again, you hit a button, leave and come back in a hour or whatever and it's all done there is NO NEED to 'tend' the install process.  I've done 3 entire installs, an initial and two complete reinstalls and while TIME is involved, that's largely the entire extent of it, and if you have good bandwidth then it will go by quite fast.   If you don't whoopdee do go do something and return and it's all done.

Out of interest what’s your download speed? Before I went FFTP it was around 70Mbps. A 30Gb+ update would take a significant amount of time at that speed. Probably closer to “whatever” than “an hour”.

Quite a nuisance if you were planning to have a fly but now can’t until the download is complete.

@Fatback hasn’t mentioned his download speed. Knowing it would be useful.

9 hours ago, MrBitstFlyer said:

Rex WeatherForce depicts most weather situations far better than the default weather engine...this also leads to amazing lighting affected by those layers that can be better than default.

MSFS, or Rex WF?   Seriously 'chasing' something like the weather engine w/ a 3rd party trying to keep up with changes is a waste of $$, for me.  For the OP--this is what the default weather engine can produce and I'm continually blown away by it even currently in the midst of its development.   

My strong advice to the OP is don't buy anything for now--FLY in it and see for yourself AND be acutely aware MSFS is in state of constant evolution at a steady pace.  Prepare to be blown away with everything, including weather, lighting, default airports and even many default planes.  

13 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

So are these developers who have mostly abandoned P3D wasting their time developing for MSFS? Might they have been wasting their time? Can they survive if what you hint at is correct?

So notice that I specifically said "3rd party add-ons that enhance the graphics of the simulator."  Yes, if you are a developer that depends on making add-ons to purely enhance the graphics, you may not have a significant market in MSFS.  There are some graphical enhancements in MSFS, like better meshes, etc, but there just isn't the space for graphical enhancements in MSFS like there is for P3D and XP.

Some exceptions would be custom handcrafted airports.  These result in better graphics for the airport, but it's more like the satellite & photogrammetry technology is not advanced enough to capture all the small details of an airport so custom handcrafted airports are needed.  Similar to custom airports, where the satellite & photogrammetry technology is not advanced enough, there is room for custom scenery in general.  But aside from custom scenery, I don't see a big opening for other graphical enhancements.

For many of the developers that abandoned P3D, many of them are also 3rd party aircraft developers. There is still a big need for 3rd party aircraft developers in MSFS.  But I don't consider aircraft developers to be in the same market as "enhancing graphics."

Edited March 29, 20224 yr by abrams_tank

14 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

Out of interest what’s your download speed? Before I went FFTP it was around 70Mbps. A 30Gb+ update would take a significant amount of time at that speed. Probably closer to “whatever” than “an hour”.

Quite a nuisance if you were planning to have a fly but now can’t until the download is complete.

@Fatback hasn’t mentioned his download speed. Knowing it would be useful.

About 150-200mbps.  The last update we just did was 3Gb.  Whoopdeedoodaday.  Updates happen every month or two, and these updates don't appear spontaneously their go-live dates are published well in advance. Obviously if the OP has a DSL modem he should reconsider, we can agree.  Ray:  YOU will be blown away when you finally get here--I guarantee it.

Edited March 29, 20224 yr by Noel

2 minutes ago, abrams_tank said:

So notice that I specifically said "3rd party add-ons that enhance the graphics of the simulator." 

Since airports contain graphics it seems reasonable they should be included. You're obviously excluding them from that statement. Fine.

Just now, Ray Proudfoot said:

Since airports contain graphics it seems reasonable they should be included. You're obviously excluding them from that statement. Fine.

You'll be SHOCKED at the quality of very many default airports in MSFS.

1 minute ago, Noel said:

Ray:  YOU will be blown away when you finally get here--I guarantee it.

No plans as things stand Noel. I’m perfectly happy with P3D for my IFR flying. 😉

I’d only use MSFS for VFR.

Just now, Noel said:

You'll be SHOCKED at the quality of very many default airports in MSFS.

I have seen Manchester some time ago and barely recognised it or even the area immediately prior to landing on 23R. Buildings that bore no relation to the actual ones.

In other parts of the world I’ve no doubt they would be a significant improvement over the P3D ones. But I need things for my flights that are not available for MSFS. Hence why I’m not moving over.

14 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

I have seen Manchester some time ago and barely recognised it or even the area immediately prior to landing on 23R. Buildings that bore no relation to the actual ones.

In other parts of the world I’ve no doubt they would be a significant improvement over the P3D ones. But I need things for my flights that are not available for MSFS. Hence why I’m not moving over.

You'll see eventually Ray and there will be no turning back once you get here.  I never said all were totally accurate but the QUALITY is lightyears ahead of default P3D.  These ARE NOT pay ware and the entire planet is replete with them.  If one does not know a particular airport intimately the default airports are more than sufficient, and this is why I've only purchased 6 since MSFS released.

And this little default pearl at Medellin CO:

 

Edited March 29, 20224 yr by Noel

11 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

No plans as things stand Noel. I’m perfectly happy with P3D for my IFR flying. 😉

I’d only use MSFS for VFR.

As long as you don't install MSFS, you'll be perfectly happy w/ P3D 😉

22 minutes ago, Noel said:

MSFS, or Rex WF?   Seriously 'chasing' something like the weather engine w/ a 3rd party trying to keep up with changes is a waste of $$, for me.  For the OP--this is what the default weather engine can produce and I'm continually blown away by it even currently in the midst of its development.   

My strong advice to the OP is don't buy anything for now--FLY in it and see for yourself AND be acutely aware MSFS is in state of constant evolution at a steady pace.  Prepare to be blown away with everything, including weather, lighting, default airports and even many default planes.  

I totally agree with you the OP should fly with the default MSFS weather and only then consider any addons.  MSFS can produce amazing skies BUT RexWeatherforce does more often depict the sky closer to reality.  

Ray, then why, dare I ask, are you in here, unless you are once again using Moderator privilege to uphold the thought that P3D is better within the MSFS forum.  Users have had a "holiday" inflicted upon them for similar.  5 hours ago you said "That’s me done here", so ?  BR.

Edited March 29, 20224 yr by Paladin
Edited incorrect response.