Any new info on XP12 ground scenery / autogen?

[Gary1124 181]

I am anxiously waiting for XP 12. I just hope my now aging ryzen 5 3600/RX 580 8gig and 32 gig of ram combo will be able to run it at acceptable settings. I know for MSFS it just scrapes mid specs but it fairly handles P3D v4 and FSX it crushes.

Edited April 26, 2022 by Gary1124

[strider1 581]

They are suppose to show off some new scenery tiles, whatever that means, at Aero Friedrichshafen!

[blingthinger 671]

On 4/22/2022 at 5:40 AM, Janov said:

I think I found another one...🤣

This one cut deep. Microsoft lied their butzz off with that one. To think it has taken 20 yrs to get even close to realizing everything that pic teased me about.

What's absolutely hilarious is that that marketing lie still has better water, trees, and clouds than fs2020 does now. The clouds look real, as opposed to the rotting marshmallows floating in that sim now. The trees...well duh. The water...wait a minute... that pic looks almost exactly like what I've been seeing in xp12 alpha pics!!

Here's the thing about XP. There's no debate that its fame shot up over the past 5 yrs when people started seeing free ortho on youtube. No debate.

LR would do well to adjust autogen placement. This article was written in conjunction with the conference in Germany this week:

https://flightnews24.de/2022/04/27/x-plane-12-auf-der-aero-friedrichshafen/

It mentions "Revision of the engine including numerous new data sources" in the autogen section. 

They know people will keep injecting ortho tiles. Photogrammetry really is "meh", especially compared to 3rd party work. Mix ortho with more plausible autogen placement, plus the rest of v12 and I will finally have what billy gates promised me 20 yrs ago!

[Gary1124 181]

11 hours ago, blingthinger said:

This one cut deep. Microsoft lied their butzz off with that one. To think it has taken 20 yrs to get even close to realizing everything that pic teased me about.

What's absolutely hilarious is that that marketing lie still has better water, trees, and clouds than fs2020 does now. The clouds look real, as opposed to the rotting marshmallows floating in that sim now. The trees...well duh. The water...wait a minute... that pic looks almost exactly like what I've been seeing in xp12 alpha pics!!

Here's the thing about XP. There's no debate that its fame shot up over the past 5 yrs when people started seeing free ortho on youtube. No debate.

LR would do well to adjust autogen placement. This article was written in conjunction with the conference in Germany this week:

https://flightnews24.de/2022/04/27/x-plane-12-auf-der-aero-friedrichshafen/

It mentions "Revision of the engine including numerous new data sources" in the autogen section. 

They know people will keep injecting ortho tiles. Photogrammetry really is "meh", especially compared to 3rd party work. Mix ortho with more plausible autogen placement, plus the rest of v12 and I will finally have what billy gates promised me 20 yrs ago!

Glad I paid attention in German class and know PA German also. Was able to read that okay.

[blingthinger 671]

22 minutes ago, Gary1124 said:

Glad I paid attention in German class and know PA German also. Was able to read that okay.

Ah...the German flag at the top right of the window is actually a tab to open a list of languages...English is one of the options.

[mSparks 2,122]

20 hours ago, blingthinger said:

They know people will keep injecting ortho tiles.

Theres a tradeoff, and its not just how expensive good ortho is to licence "properly" for redistribution ala OrbX.

ortho gives significant performance improvements at the expense of hard disk space, generating the ground textures "on the fly" looks a lot worse and reduces fps - but it also means LR can distribute the entire world for offline use for pretty much everybody with something resembling a PC (e.g. the steam deck).

I dont expect the looks of those auto generated ground textures to change considerably, I hope they get rid of some of the worst bits - but also doing so will hurt fps when the better solution already is for users to swap them out with ortho to look much better with better fps (but needing more disk space).

LR have already teased new water and trees. TBH I don't think any current game engine has them as good as XP12, not even unigine, and even if I accept I am maybe a little biased.

Edited April 28, 2022 by mSparks

[blingthinger 671]

8 minutes ago, mSparks said:

steam deck

I've heard that the microSD card works really well. Get a couple TB and you could probably fit some ZL14/15 on there. My only grimace w/ xp on steam deck is the similarity to an xbox controller. Difference being that XP wasn't designed for that demographic. Mobile has been an after-thought and steamOS leaves access to the real OS for power users.

 

11 minutes ago, mSparks said:

I dont expect the looks of those auto generated ground textures to change considerably,

Me neither. Coastlines and 3D water on new beaches will go a long way to fix some of the really odd stuff.  I do hope they fix the appearance of dense housing in the middle of nowhere. LR needs to do at least something small to go up against photogrammetry.

[Gary1124 181]

9 hours ago, blingthinger said:

Ah...the German flag at the top right of the window is actually a tab to open a list of languages...English is one of the options.

It's all good. I don't get to flex my German very often lately. I worked for an Amish business man for a year and had a dear friend in church from Germany but she passed on. I was glad to read the German. XP 12 looks like it will be just fine for those of us loath to the huge MS ecosystem.

[MrBitstFlyer 3,910]

On 4/21/2022 at 2:25 PM, jarmstro said:

So you are using the beta. I am asking what there is that moves things beyond MSFS? Why is this a controversial question? Sell it to me. Better visuals, better performance, better planes or what? What are the advantages for me of switching back to X-Plane?

Why is there a need to 'switch' to XP-12?  I love MSFS but still use XP-11, and XP-12 will be a day one purchase for me.  Use both for the unique things they both will bring to the sim table.

[Noel 4,572]

On 5/13/2022 at 2:01 PM, MrBitstFlyer said:

Why is there a need to 'switch' to XP-12?

There would be a need because I have less than no desire to maintain two platforms--as it is now I don't have enough opportunity to fly MSFS as much as I wish to.  XP12 will need to be an unequivocally better experience for me to leave MSFS which continues to improve at an impressive pace as the new arrivals appears from PMDG/FENIX and just heard yesterday FSCaptain is jumping in with their first foray.  And the 'better' piece needs to incorporate all elements of the sim, including installation/maintenance.  I spent decades trying to make FSX/P3D shine and won't do that again as I'm duly spoiled by planetary ortho and no need to install/maintain any of it.  XP12 will be a demo install for me to give it enough of a test out of the box to see how it compares and as I say it will need to be stellar to steal my attention away from MSFS.  Right now, from what I've seen in terms of their first attempt at volumetric clouds I don't see anything compelling but hopefully what I've seen is early alpha only.

[2reds2whites 827]

On 4/24/2022 at 4:53 PM, mSparks said:

On 2/7/2022 at 11:03 AM, GoranM said:

We know, unequivocally, that the CL650 cannot be made, with all the features and systems coding it has, for MSFS.  

 

Well this aged like warm milk.

[mSparks 2,122]

1 hour ago, 2reds2whites said:

Well this aged like warm milk.

because....?

[2reds2whites 827]

55 minutes ago, mSparks said:

because....?

It is your view - knowing the work that's being put out in MSFS by the likes of PMDG and Fenix -  that "unequivocally, that the CL650 cannot be made, with all the features and systems coding it has, for MSFS?"

You think that is even vaguely an accurate statement?

Edited May 18, 2022 by 2reds2whites

[mSparks 2,122]

4 minutes ago, 2reds2whites said:

It is your view - knowing the work that's being put out in MSFS by the likes of PMDG and Fenix -  that "unequivocally, that the CL650 cannot be made, with all the features and systems coding it has, for MSFS?"

You think that is even vaguely an accurate statement?

I am not goran, I quoted two developers with opposite views.

Goron, the person you quoted me quoting IS one of the two developers of the hotstart CL650. Pretty sure he knows better than either of us tbh.

nanobot hasnt done any plane dev for xplane or msfs afaik, but he's a god when it comes to shaders.

Edited May 18, 2022 by mSparks

[Claviateur 789]

To add some points to the questions asked earlier in this thread, as for what XP12 has to offer more than XP11 or MSFS:

As a platform, the world engine of XP12 is the same as 11 (and 10) and not a new engine / platform / tech... It is certainly refreshed and updated only in some aspects as in the previewed refinements and updates (atmospheric lighting, weather, precipitation, clouds etc.)

The terrain architecture seem the same to me, based on all previews I saw so far... If it was a new platform / terrain / world engine tech, LR would have put it in bold and underlined it... And we would have seen many previews showcasing the new terrain tech...

I created scenery for XP11 from 2016 to 2020 and then gave up because the terrain architecture is too stiff... Somehow locked...

Back then I asked if the engine of XP might be replaced and they said no... So I bet XP12 uses the same engine... refreshed as LR did for 10 and 11... Minus the terrain aspect, as far as the latest previews show...

Yes they replaced the billboard trees with 3D trees featuring individual branches and leaves (that I am not sure are the best strategy in a flight simulator and less effective and realistic when it comes to creating clutter and density in forests as perceived from the air).

And maybe they worked on a new set of procedural ground and facades textures... Some extra custom 3D infrastructure for the default library... Etc.

It is a great upgrade from XP11 but to me it is XP11.6 🙂 I would not go as far as calling it New Gen or Next Gen because this would mean a new engine / platform...

I am not promoting any sim here but objectively, MSFS has, as for now, the most high budget and cutting edge modern  world engine tech with high level of immersion not available yet in any flight sim type (including entertainment or training)...