5 minutes ago, David Mills said:

Again, it does not make the XP community look good that they boast about using MSFS data. MSFS never boasts about using XP data. The thought is comical.

Is that the cold war?

The data is available in a free legal license, the reason for this is explained in the link as well.

All I see from your comments is some fanboism frustration.

Tell me didn't many MSFS users use illegal google stuff? How does it look for you now?

Edited May 28, 20224 yr by mtaxp

34 minutes ago, mtaxp said:

Is that the cold war?

The data is available in a free legal license, the reason for this is explained in the link as well.

All I see from your comments is some fanboism frustration.

The license does not permit selling the data to others, as would be the case if XP incorporated the MSFS world into its build and then sold it. Even if XP becomes a free download that simply streams Bing data, Microsoft is never going to permit their data to be used in a flight sim, even a free one, that takes any significant sales away from MSFS. But sales of XP12 are going to be so miniscule compared to MSFS that Microsoft might just overlook it. So you might indeed get away with your smash and grab scenery from Microsoft. Far more importantly, everyone seems to be ignoring the indispensable part BlackShark plays in the MSFS scenery. There is no question that the BlackShark algorithms are proprietary. XP12 is not coded to use BlackShark data even if Microsoft and Asobo and BlackShark gave LR the data for free -- which is never going to happen in a million years. For the third and final time -- does it make you feel good about XP that it needs free scenery from the competition to look decent? It would be like General Motors making a TV commercial boasting that "All General Motors cars are now made with genuine Ford parts." XP12 global scenery is going to look pitiful compared to MSFS global scenery. Someone called me a fan of MSFS scenery. You got that right!

Edited May 28, 20224 yr by David Mills

25 minutes ago, mtaxp said:

Tell me didn't many MSFS users use illegal google stuff? How does it look for you now?

Yes, a few users attempted, mostly without success, to illegally use Google scenery. And I was ethically opposed to that as well. I absolutely agree with you. 

 

16 minutes ago, David Mills said:

The license does not permit selling the data to others,

Again ... haven't you read ...

3 hours ago, mtaxp said:

MSFS data is already available for free, some x-plane free 3rd party packages use it already

@David Mills the more you proceed the more cringy it seems. Who are you accusing excatly of stealing property and what's your point?

This data is available for free for anyone who wishes to use it for whatever purpose. it is what it is, deal with it.

1 minute ago, uwespeed said:

 

Again ... haven't you read ...

Yep..but I almost sure its also under the same license as OSM, hence, LR can use it if they want. 

24 minutes ago, mtaxp said:

@David Mills the more you proceed the more cringy it seems. Who are you accusing excatly of stealing property and what's your point?

This data is available for free for anyone who wishes to use it for whatever purpose. it is what it is, deal with it.

My point, long forgotten, was that the XP12 global scenery is deliberately obscured in all the promo videos thus far showcased. If XP is technically and legally able to freely use Microsoft's scenery data, then I fully expect XP12 global scenery to look on par with MSFS scenery. We'll soon find out, won't we? 

As my final comment: I never accused Austin or LR of doing anything illegal. I stated instead that some members of the XP community openly advocate the use of Microsoft Flight Simulator property within XP. Even if that is or becomes legal, that doesn't make XP look good.

Edited May 28, 20224 yr by David Mills

13 minutes ago, David Mills said:

My point, long forgotten, was that the XP12 global scenery is deliberately obscured in all the promo videos thus far showcased. If XP is technically and legally able to freely use Microsoft's scenery data, then I fully expect XP12 global scenery to look on par with MSFS scenery. We'll soon find out, won't we? 

As my final comment: I never accused Austin or LR of doing anything illegal. I stated instead that some members of the XP community openly advocate the use of Microsoft Flight Simulator property within XP. Even if that is or becomes legal, that doesn't make XP look good.

Are you deliberately ignoring what you read? As stated countless times, the x-plane 12 scenery is not ready yet to be viewed, what is the point promoting the older version scenery?

As for the community, it only makes XP not look good in the eyes of people like you who are in a cold war mindset. Its an available data for free by its license, period. If some sort of fake pride is to be counted it is up to you. 

Acording to your views, x-plane should not be allowed to work on windows because they are a competetion to MSFS. Even if, seems Austin was right again for going to the multi platform route 🤣

Edited May 28, 20224 yr by mtaxp

4 hours ago, David Mills said:

The license does not permit selling the data to others, as would be the case if XP incorporated the MSFS world into its build and then sold it. Even if XP becomes a free download that simply streams Bing data, Microsoft is never going to permit their data to be used in a flight sim, even a free one, that takes any significant sales away from MSFS. But sales of XP12 are going to be so miniscule compared to MSFS that Microsoft might just overlook it. So you might indeed get away with your smash and grab scenery from Microsoft. Far more importantly, everyone seems to be ignoring the indispensable part BlackShark plays in the MSFS scenery. There is no question that the BlackShark algorithms are proprietary. XP12 is not coded to use BlackShark data even if Microsoft and Asobo and BlackShark gave LR the data for free -- which is never going to happen in a million years. For the third and final time -- does it make you feel good about XP that it needs free scenery from the competition to look decent? It would be like General Motors making a TV commercial boasting that "All General Motors cars are now made with genuine Ford parts." XP12 global scenery is going to look pitiful compared to MSFS global scenery. Someone called me a fan of MSFS scenery. You got that right!

I still hear blackshark mentioned every now and again, 

I assume that is the terrible scenery everywhere outside the few dozen cities with terrible orthogrammmetry?

I assume that because for some reason everyone who youtubes seems to be buying payware airports.

that really sums up the XP12 v MSFS differences for me. Microsoft used Artificial Intelligence, Laminar used Real Intelligence. 

Edited May 28, 20224 yr by mSparks

4 hours ago, David Mills said:

I stated instead that some members of the XP community openly advocate the use of Microsoft Flight Simulator property within XP.

Are you drunk? 🤣

3 hours ago, mSparks said:

I still hear blackshark mentioned every now and again, 

I assume that is the terrible scenery everywhere outside the few dozen cities with terrible orthogrammmetry?

I assume that because for some reason everyone who youtubes seems to be buying payware airports.

that really sums up the XP12 v MSFS differences for me. Microsoft used Artificial Intelligence, Laminar used Real Intelligence. 

Maybe I misunderstood your point but are you referring to Photogrammetry cities?? Not true at all, the scenery in MSFS renders data driven procedural (XP facade type 2 like) infrastructure generated from Scanned Footprints + OSM + Bing and true to life dense vegetation (trees + grass) that dynamically grabs the color tones of the underneath textures and all this worldwide and even in far away lands and areas of the world where in other sim platforms including XP it is a bare flat and post apocalyptic ground...

I heard this claim from Austin himself who was criticizing MSFS scenery by saying it is melting shapes etc (referring to Photogrammetry cities obviously) in one of his videos...  But he actually gave misleading info to his audience because MSFS scenery outside the Photogrammetry cities is the most plausible worldwide data driven procedural scenery... It is the plausible scenery he actually probably always wanted to have in XP... (Not the ortho tiles indeed)

Well, one thing I learned from being an XP user and scenery developer through the years, is that everything XP does not have and FS has, is either played down or criticized... And then one version later, some of that make it to XP and then it becomes legit...

If the 3D trees with individual branches and leaves (that I am not sure are the best strategy in a flight sim to create clutter and dense forests from the air...) were in MSFS, I could clearly immagine the type of criticism from the XP side... "who needs such detailed trees in a flight sim..." and this would have been a logical critic wouldn't be!...

And speaking of AI... As you know well, it is a useful technology that is applied in a lot of fields now where real intelligence needs it to replace thousands of human brains for specific tasks...

 

Edited May 29, 20224 yr by Claviateur

Now just to illustrate my basic point... I told XP11 to "Get me Lost", so it took me to the wilderness near the Yukon river in Alaska... And then went there in MSFS... 

So what... Nothing much one might say... Well it is a forest and most probably the data that was scanned by the AI (of who cares what company) made it happen in one platform but real intelligence on the other side made it an unrecognizable empty landscape... No need to say in what platform Bush Flying would be experienced better...

And unlike the misinformed comments above, I did not even use the word "terrible"...

Edited May 29, 20224 yr by Claviateur

A quick question would you be able to run this if the MS servers were down? XP works quite happily without the need of a sandbox and that is a massive plus for many users. Secondly, this could be created to a higher level for XPlane if you were to add the additional items like ortho4xp etc etc.

I would personally prefer if maybe LR could take a leaf out of the pages of DCS book with additional scenery packs and maybe a tie up with ORBX for instances who already have a number items available in there libraries with any additional items being backed up through the use of Ortho4XP. 

Edited May 29, 20224 yr by ianlighting

 

15 minutes ago, ianlighting said:

A quick question would you be able to run this if the MS servers were down? XP works quite happily without the need of a sandbox and that is a massive plus for many users. Secondly, this could be created too higher level for XPlane if you were to add the additional items like ortho4xp etc etc.

I totally agree with you on the servers being down = no data... But if we look at the future (as we are dealing with tech here), storing huge data on our disks for whatever reason does not look very futuristic does it?

So servers reliability in everything these days is an important factor...

As for Ortho4XP and World2XP (to create OSM overlays), I spent numerous hours generating my favorite areas for VFR fun... In 2022 / 23, this should be out of the box of a flight sim / world engine as it is the case in MSFS... 

Again, unlike the above comment claims, the worldwide data driven procedural scenery of MSFS, out of the box, and outside the Photogrammetry cities is not terrible at all, but quiet the opposite: It delivers a rewarding VFR experience without the need to spend even a single minute on generating anything for anywhere. This is simply called evolving technology no matter what company and platform delivers this evolution...

Edited May 29, 20224 yr by Claviateur