Any new info on XP12 ground scenery / autogen?

[Claviateur 789]

1 minute ago, mtaxp said:

Wait those are 2 different things. Even for the long term talk that Ben gave at the keynote they are NOT planning to add orthos as ground textures, rather, they are planning to use them in their algorithms to get the world void areas more accurate so they place their own ground textures accuratly.

A new mesh system is a complete different topic, something they are already working on and not related to data or high end coropartion budget. See my last comment with relevant quotes.

 

Sure, I got that and not talking about ortho implementation... I already heard them saying Ortho could be a reference to procedural texture types and placement... Fair enough.

 I was referring to  the whole virtual world data (we can call them overlays maybe) that can create a world wide low and slow immersive experience while being able to know where you are as VFR pilots do... Lack of data in the rest of the world as it is now, will create empty, dull and flat lands no matter how the mesh will be revamped.

[mtaxp 666]

1 hour ago, Claviateur said:

Sure, I got that and not talking about ortho implementation... I already heard them saying Ortho could be a reference to procedural texture types and placement... Fair enough.

 I was referring to  the whole virtual world data (we can call them overlays maybe) that can create a world wide low and slow immersive experience while being able to know where you are as VFR pilots do... Lack of data in the rest of the world as it is now, will create empty, dull and flat lands no matter how the mesh will be revamped.

MSFS data is already available for free, some x-plane free 3rd party packages use it already

It is up to LR to use it if they want, while perfecting their autogen algos to save space and getting more accurate as well. They did claim to rework the entire autogen algos already for x-plane 12 new global scenery that we are all waiting to see. What data sources they use (other than OSM) is unknown currently. 

Typically what takes most of the memory space are ortho textures themselves.

[rka 916]

5 hours ago, mjrhealth said:

Yep. So many Nay Sayers with there expert observation. Surprised we dont have more flight sims with so many experts out there

As far as I can tell, it is not necessary to be able to build a car oneself for a person to say "this car is slow" or "this car doesn't move at all".

[rka 916]

4 hours ago, spitzer said:

Is the only reason not streaming online maps to x plane 12 high costs? Or difficulty for building such a program, software etc? For example Mfs have done this via blackshark ai company. 

Austin Meyer thinks it's not necessary and it looks bad. There is some video where he comments on that. Maybe one year old, on youtube.

[spitzer 19]

17 minutes ago, rka said:

Austin Meyer thinks it's not necessary and it looks bad. There is some video where he comments on that. Maybe one year old, on youtube.

It looks bad? Maybe some maps tiles can have weird color problems but generally they are way better than old stock terrain textures. 

[rka 916]

Just now, spitzer said:

It looks bad? Maybe some maps tiles can have weird color problems but generally they are way better than old stock terrain textures. 

I'm just reporting what the man said 😄

[David Mills 4,774]

2 hours ago, Claviateur said:

Also on MSFS Forum there are developers who are discussing technically speaking ways to connect more external custom flight models to MSFS.

XP to FS could be a bit touchy business wise (no idea if either or both companies would like that) but technically I am sure someone out there can make the link

 

Every XP user wants XP scenery to copy or look like MSFS. But no MSFS users wants his scenery to look like XP. 

[Bjoern 1,157]

3 hours ago, Claviateur said:

I think you are referring to two different things here:

The architecture of MSFS world engine, makes it possible to have a first layer of generic ground textures (if you disabled live data streaming) and the result is no better than XP or FSX... Over this generic (offline) mode, another layer of ground tiles is a live streamed Bing tiles... And over these other layers of data driven procedural infrastructure and vegetation...

It's the same for XP. Add-on mesh at the bottom of the stack, then phototapestry in form of orthos, then add-on OSM data. All sandwiched above the default terrain (or replacing it if excludes are provided).

 

Quote

This terrain architecture is obviously not present in XP thus I am not sure an external app can feed XP with (aerial) tiles to replace the generic textures... In MSFS there is this external app you run and it replaces default Bing tiles with other aerial sources... Simply because the Sim world engine / terrain architecture is ready for that...

OrthoXP lets you pick your ortho sources. What's missing is a tool that automatically color matches ortho textures and removes clouds or other atifacts.

 

Quote

Blackshark AI is a company that scanned the huge Bing data to extract (with Machine Learning), the footprints (along with some metadata) and vegetation zones... But the scanned data is also mixed with Bing vector + OSM as well...

X-Europe/America/etc. uses OSM data plus Bing's footprint data to generate object placement information for use in XP.

 

Quote

So I am not sure at all an app could feed XP11 or XP12 with aerial tiles to replace the default ones (unless they are revamping the terrain architecture in XP12 as we speak),  because XP terrain architecture and technology was not created like MSFS terrain engine is... XP terrain is an older tech + somehow locked 

The only thing that's "locked" about XP is the binarized DSF file format.

Really, the only difference between MSFS and XP is that the former provides its terrain information as a data stream from internet servers while the latter requires storing everything on your computer or a home server and feed it to XP via network folders or symbolic links. Other than that, you can easily have all the photorealistic terrain textures and OSM-placed buildings you need.

Streaming would be perfectly possible for XP from a technical standpoint. All itd take is implementing a data-fetching routine into the simulator load process before loading its terrain assets and done. The problem is that the storage and bandwidth requirements for streaming terabytes of terrain data require the resources of a megacorp.

 

 

9 minutes ago, David Mills said:

Every XP user wants XP scenery to copy or look like MSFS. But no MSFS users wants his scenery to look like XP.

I don't want XP to look like MSFS. MSFS can keep its candy cotton clouds, awful looking A320 nose and overly dramatic lighting.

Edited May 28, 2022 by Bjoern

[Humpty 751]

23 minutes ago, David Mills said:

Every XP user wants XP scenery to copy or look like MSFS. But no MSFS users wants his scenery to look like XP. 

Nah , I want XP to look realistic 

[David Mills 4,774]

1 hour ago, mtaxp said:

MSFS data is already available for free, some x-plane free 3rd party packages use it already

It is up to LR to use it if they want ...

The XP community is not only devoid of detailed global scenery, it appears to be devoid of ethics as well. Is there really no moral issue about blatantly stealing someone else's property? I think I'll market a wonderful Christmas album this coming season. Sure, I might be using tracks from Elvis Presley and Bing Crosby, but if I can technically make it work, that's all I need for the David Mills Christmas Album.

[uwespeed 497]

22 minutes ago, David Mills said:

Is there really no moral issue about blatantly stealing someone else's property?

??? What are you talking about?

[David Mills 4,774]

4 minutes ago, uwespeed said:

??? What are you talking about?

Many XP users openly advocate stealing global scenery data from MSFS -- data that cost Microsoft billions of dollars to develop and maintain. It  appears that the years of pilfering ortho scenery have completely anesthetized all sense of propriety or property or ethics. This may be called "XP smash and grab scenery."

[uwespeed 497]

11 minutes ago, David Mills said:

Many XP users openly advocate stealing global scenery data from MSFS -- data that cost Microsoft billions of dollars to develop and maintain. It  appears that the years of pilfering ortho scenery have completely anesthetized all sense of propriety or property or ethics. This may be called "XP smash and grab scenery."

Haven't you read ...

2 hours ago, mtaxp said:

MSFS data is already available for free, some x-plane free 3rd party packages use it already

 

Proof: https://github.com/microsoft/GlobalMLBuildingFootprints

 

 

[mtaxp 666]

1 hour ago, David Mills said:

The XP community is not only devoid of detailed global scenery, it appears to be devoid of ethics as well. Is there really no moral issue about blatantly stealing someone else's property? I think I'll market a wonderful Christmas album this coming season. Sure, I might be using tracks from Elvis Presley and Bing Crosby, but if I can technically make it work, that's all I need for the David Mills Christmas Album.

🤣

https://github.com/microsoft/GlobalMLBuildingFootprints

 

[David Mills 4,774]

Again, it does not make the XP community look good that they boast about using MSFS data. MSFS never boasts about using XP data. The thought is comical.