Why are people so concerned about frame count

[Ixoye 1,821]

60 fps in 4K is Nirvana in flightsim, beautiful graphics and smooth performance everywhere, even when panning view fast, something we all should strive for in the future.

Edited May 14, 2022 by Ixoye

[Ianrivaldosmith 5,317]

1 minute ago, Ixoye said:

60 fps in 4K is Nirvana in flightsim, beautiful graphics and smooth performance everywhere, even when panning view fast, something we all should strive for in the future.

And achievable with 3080/3090 if they sort the main thread out…! 

[Cpt_Piett 4,685]

I’ve got a 120hz oled tv and I’ve got fps locked at 40 using MSFS v-sync. I tune my graphics settings to keep a stable 40fps in most scenarios.

The tv is g-sync compatible. I’ve tried turning v-sync off, but not sure about the results. Anyone got any comments on this? Worse/better than fps capped?

[Ixoye 1,821]

18 minutes ago, Ianrivaldosmith said:

And achievable with 3080/3090 if they sort the main thread out…! 

Most likely, the dream will come true with faster CPUs in the future, 3090 is fully sufficient for the graphics performance.

[JBDB-MD80 1,473]

Gamer if I don't get 120  fps its unplayable.

Serious Gamer if I get 60 fps i'm good

Flight Simmer. If I ger over 30 and the sim don't crash or stutter i'm good.

[FBW737 512]

6 hours ago, Ianrivaldosmith said:

Not a chance. LG OLED 4K, 120hz. Why would I ever contemplate reducing the Hz? Nonsensical. And anything below 40fps is drastically visible on this tv. 
 

PS whatever your judder reduction setting is supposed to be doing(?), I’m not sure it’s working, as that video showcases something awful imo. 

I don't think you ever understood my post or even tried the suggestion. I said in my post it was going to look terrible and in you post you confirmed that before applying the magic sauce it does in fact look terrible on your LG OLED 4K, 120hz. I'm pretty sure you just arrogantly dismissed the suggestion without trying it. Even a quick search shows your OLED 4K 120hz probably does have a judder reduction filter. And it also sounds like you use that very same 4K TV as your FS display and even though I made it very easy for you try something you wouldn't even take the 30 seconds it took to pick up your remote and try it. I think you might be afraid to discover you might wrong about something. Perhaps your ego couldn't handle it. I know for a fact it works. And I know after a couple of decades of FS its the best solution I've ever seen.

 

Here is a little article about it:

https://www.rtings.com/tv/tests/motion/24p

[Ianrivaldosmith 5,317]

6 hours ago, FBW737 said:

I think you might be afraid to discover you might wrong about something.

Actually, if you knew anything about me, you will know I’ve researched TV’s and G-Sync monitors for MSFS/Xplane etc for years. I have also been Very vocal on these forums about that. I am not going to discover anything by running at 24fps trust me. 

 

6 hours ago, FBW737 said:

Perhaps your ego couldn't handle it. I know for a fact it works. And I know after a couple of decades of FS its the best solution I've ever seen.

 

What does my ego have to do with changing an expensive C1 to to run at 24hz, or 30hz, and then enable Judder correction? When I can just run it higher than 40fps at 120hz and not have the issue to begin with? 

De-Judder interpolates for <=30 fps content (including movies/film/modern TV shows at 24fps). So, using this for MSFS, no thank you. And yes, I have seen this used before and witnessed it with my own eyes and it does NOT work for any type of gaming, hence the reason most modern TV’s have gaming modes or G-Sync. 
 

So, yeah, cheers for the insults, but perhaps you should rethink. 

6 hours ago, FBW737 said:

And I know after a couple of decades of FS its the best solution I've ever seen.

So you’re stuck in the past too? If that’s the best solution you’ve ever seen, then I pity you. 

[Ianrivaldosmith 5,317]

6 hours ago, FBW737 said:

Here is a little article about it:

https://www.rtings.com/tv/tests/motion/24p

Ps, even this article explains it’s just for movies:-

When it matters: Only 24p content (mostly just movies).

[Reader 2,026]

The solution to the path this topic has taken:

[Tom Wright 438]

I've changed my mindset to frame rates with different sims.

P3D I always used to chase fps. If you looked at my logbook over half the flights I did were only takeoffs, usually while I watched the frame counter and cried, turned a few things off and tried again.

With MSFS, as long as it looks smooth I don't care. And I'm having a lot more fun that's for sure.

[Ianrivaldosmith 5,317]

12 minutes ago, Reader said:

The solution to the path this topic has taken:

And? 

[Noel 4,503]

On 5/14/2022 at 5:06 AM, OzWhitey said:

High frames rates - as long as they are consistent - are a big part of achieving smoothness, which is part of the verisimilitude needed to truly replicate flight.

"High" is the relative term.  This is really the primary concern--being able to maintain consistent frame intervals no matter where, in what, or when, for me that is as I detest ever stopping to change a variable to regain smooth animation.  Of course there becomes a consistent frame rate that is so low individual frames can be easily perceived by anyone, and there is no way one can call this 'fluid' or 'smooth'.  Right now w/ my hardware in the B87X HD or AS CRJ, 30fps is about the maximum sustainable frame rate and that is only accomplished when I dial in Terrain LOD compatible w/ the flight scenario.  Most of the time just about anywhere I can get away with a T-LOD of 160, but at the tail end of a long flight there is a certain debt accrued such that at departure T-LOD can be higher even though the arrival airport/area is essentially the same as the departure airport.  For example, if I take off out of FSDT's KORD I will be fine w/ T-LOD 160 or maybe 180, but if I fly into KORD from a ways away likely I'll need to be down around 130 or even 120 to avoid ANY dips below a vsynced 30fps.   For my perception a solid 30fps is amply smooth.  If I could get away with 40fps or 60fps anywhere in any plane then that would be better, but when I've done comparison between 30, and even 60fps (up at altitude where 60 is easily maintained) the difference for me is perceivable for sure, but ultimately underwhelming:

This crude poll demonstrates a lot of people are very okay w/ a consistent 30FPS:

[Ianrivaldosmith 5,317]

Not this ice cream poll again. So ridiculous.  It’s like me walking in to a Porsche garage and asking if they prefer Porsche or ice cream. 

[HiFlyer 9,361]

Because a lot of us use VR?

That 30 frames per second that so many people claim to be comfortable with equates to about 15 frames per second when used with VR, which equates to massive suckage, and is to be avoided at all costs.

[markmco 22]

I am one of the old guys that started with the Dorrough ‘spreadsheet’ simulator and watched Bruce Artwick start SubLogic.  Nobody believed his vision of coding a real-time simulator in multiple axis’s was possible with the given hardware, even with the Apple II and Commodores powerful C6502.  But he did it, in machine language.  Later, I remember marveling at how fluid and ‘real’ the simulator felt on an IBM PC, especially with 2 colors, so land and see looked realistic.

I mention all this because early on, frame rate really did dictate experience.  And many would pay dearly (measured in thousands) for that experience.  

Fast forward forty-plus years and we’re still looking for the same thing, but at different levels.  I won’t take sides here, but neither viewpoint is wrong.  In my early days, I used frame-rate to measure hardware.  A faster frame-rate meant that a PC was ‘better’ and worth more …or would cost more.  Of course, FS was also a test of IBM compatibility.  For a while, I chased frames and was never happy.  My interest was concentrated more on faster frames than enjoying the thrill of (simulated) flight.  I was flying to complex areas and airports only for the experience of checking performance.  For a few decades, my eyes would scan the frame numbers more vigorously than the gauges!

For many years now, as I get older and slow down, I don’t turn the counter on and just enjoy simming.  For me, much more enjoyable.  If I get a slowdown, or some ‘chop’, maybe a micro stutter once in a while, I take it in stride.  Don’t get me wrong, I am still a geek at heart, so I tune my graphics settings, optimize hardware and try my best to get a good experience.

That is what it’s all about.  The suspension of belief, which can happen as we read a good book or watch a compelling movie.  I now leave frame numbers to the developers and just enjoy the ride!

Have fun and see you in the air!