Frames NO stutters YES!

1 hour ago, virtuali said:

This has become like an internet meme now. EACH time, on every forum, of every game, when fps are discussed, it doesn't take long before somebody will post the "movies are shot at 24 fps" mantra.

That's one of the easiest points to get on the "Avsim Frame Rate Discussion Bingo". 

Though I'm not sure you're right about every forum doing this. It really is something Avsim is famous/infamous for. There's been some stalwarts here over the years who were very, very negative about this newfangled 60 FPS, or in fact anything even vaguely close to it.

Maybe it's like when Peter Jackson shot The Hobbit at 60 FPS. Audiences hated it, because they're used to a choppy 24 FPS, so 60 FPS looks "non-cinematic".

If Asobo came out with a sim that ran 60 FPS smooth and stutter free, hundreds of old-school simmers would be like "My eyes are bleeding! This is wrong!", and would then add some frame rate limiter to keep it at 8 FPS, or whatever they've got used to flying.

😉

22 minutes ago, Christopher Low said:

I suspect that the reason why "old school" simmers have accepted 30fps for so long is because they want the maximum "bang for their buck". They can run the simulator at higher detail settings when compared to 60fps, and they have less chance of experiencing annoying stutters. Obviously, 60fps will feel smoother than 30fps, but it is the framerate that is considered to be good enough that counts.

I guess im a 'boomer' old school simmer since FS95 and getting stable, smooth stutter free @30FPS was always the dream.  30 years later the dream is @60FPS and could be around the corner w the next gen GPUs. 

7 minutes ago, wiler said:

I guess im a 'boomer' old school simmer since FS95 and getting stable, smooth stutter free @30FPS was always the dream.  30 years later the dream is @60FPS and could be around the corner w the next gen GPUs. 

All ready is with the 3090, it isn’t the gpu holding it back, it’s the cpu with the main thread limited 

Years ago in FSX I learned too turn off frame counter. If it is smooth that is all I need. Now locked to 30 fps, and it stays right there.

Edited May 14, 20224 yr by Bobsk8

well I've said it before and I'll say it again. I've being tackling the old stutters and performance demon in FS for at least a couple of decades. The argument was settles a very long time ago. The higher your visual quality and traffic setting etc. The lower your frame rate. It was also established a long time ago that higher FPS does not equal smoother game play. Granted variable refresh rate moved the goal post a little but not much. What has always been key is matching FPS with display refresh rate. Blah blah blah. And it works. And if you know how to tweak it a little bit it works really well. For example FPS locked at 30 and refresh rate at 29hz I've found gets ride of the dreaded 1 micro pause every second that can occur. I've always found that TV's are the better option for FS over PC monitors because they support lower refresh rates and they are a lot cheaper. Since the advent of 4K TV's its even better. I'd challenge anyone who has a Samsung 4K particularly a 6000series in there home to plug their FS PC into it and set your refresh rate in NCP to 23hz. Take a flight with in game Vsync on at 60fps. It's gonna look terrible but then pick up the TV remote hit the settings button and go to expert setting. Scroll down to Auto Motion Plus Setting and set Judder reduction to 10.

I'll make it easy to try. Set your refresh rate in NCP to 23hz then play the MSFS video below (the video is captured at 24fps) and open the TV settings with the remote. Navigate to Judder reduction, highlight it and select to place the control bar on the bottom of the screen. Using the left/right arrow move the slider back and forth and watch the difference in the playback from the Judder reduction filter at 0 or 10.

I think all 4KTV's has this kind of filter so try it on any 4KTV. On mine with the filter set to 10, this 24fps video at 23hz looks as good as or better then 60fps at 60hz.

If you don't want to try it fine. If it helps anyone get a better experience. Your welcome:

 

Edited May 14, 20224 yr by FBW737

well this fired up a lot of people.  Having higher frame rates is like saying, I'm Mr. Macho and I easily get 120 frames and its butter smooth.!!!  Well I'm satisfied with my locked frames at 30 and butter smooth as well.

Remember we are not playing a shooter game or car racing, this is a simulator, and the old school theory still works, 30 locked.

6 minutes ago, Sunshine13 said:

people.  Having higher frame rates is like saying, I'm Mr. Macho and I easily get 120 frames and its butter smooth.!!!

Ermm, no it’s not. Try reading some of the intellectual posts above and you’ll see why. 

33 minutes ago, FBW737 said:

think all 4KTV's has this kind of filter so try it on any 4KTV. On mine with the filter set to 10, this 24fps video at 23hz looks as good as or better then 60fps at 60hz.

 

Not a chance. LG OLED 4K, 120hz. Why would I ever contemplate reducing the Hz? Nonsensical. And anything below 40fps is drastically visible on this tv. 
 

PS whatever your judder reduction setting is supposed to be doing(?), I’m not sure it’s working, as that video showcases something awful imo. 

Edited May 14, 20224 yr by Ianrivaldosmith

I have 60hz 4K monitor, get good frames but have micro stutter which is visible looking out a window at ground or moving objects.  Seen some talk about 60hz monitors having issues?   Could anyone expand if they have knowledge?.

 

3080ti, i911900KF

usually lock at 36fps in NCP

 

Edited May 14, 20224 yr by pobee10

14 minutes ago, Sunshine13 said:

well this fired up a lot of people.  Having higher frame rates is like saying, I'm Mr. Macho and I easily get 120 frames and its butter smooth.!!!  Well I'm satisfied with my locked frames at 30 and butter smooth as well.

Remember we are not playing a shooter game or car racing, this is a simulator, and the old school theory still works, 30 locked.

No, it’s not about “firing up” people. I don’t think anyone cares if you really want to sim at 30 FPS if you’re happy with that. <shrug>.

But expect people to respond if you make broad, over-reaching claims insinuating that 30 FPS should be fine for anyone. Like your silly “Mr Macho” comment, which suggests that you haven’t read anything that was actually posted in this thread.

Even if you don’t care about smooth flight, professionals like the FAA do. You won’t get a flight simulator approved if the frame rate is insufficient.

Lto each their own!  sure I can get 120 frames on my computer, will it be butter smooth, not really.  What works for me, may not work for you.

But I have been flight simming since 1998, but the old school philosophy of 30 frames locked works for me.  Remember, this is not a one shooter game, car racing, boxing etc, this is a simulator, and a different beast.

Fly in a high density area, NYC,, London, etc and use a really nice airport such as flytampa/Toronto, FS Dreamteam, KORD, and so on, I have seen better results on my computer when frames are locked at 30 or 45, and sure for bragging rights, I can get up to 120 frames, big deal!!!

20 hours ago, cobalt said:

Since the last update I am seeing FPS in excess of 50, sometimes 60(!), and the feeling of immersion and responsiveness is beyond anything I have seen before. 

 

Nice to see you in our forum, Jorg!

52 minutes ago, Sunshine13 said:

and sure for bragging rights, I can get up to 120 frames, big deal!!!

Again, it’s not about bragging rights 😞

Sometimes, it’s like talking to a wall here. 

53 minutes ago, Sunshine13 said:

But I have been flight simming since 1998, but the old school philosophy of 30 frames locked works for me.  Remember, this is not a one shooter game, car racing, boxing etc, this is a simulator, and a different beast.

So, you’re stuck in the past? Or? 
 

1 hour ago, Sunshine13 said:

But I have been flight simming since 1998, but the old school philosophy of 30 frames locked works for me.  Remember, this is not a one shooter game, car racing, boxing etc, this is a simulator, and a different beast.

Fly in a high density area, NYC,, London, etc and use a really nice airport such as flytampa/Toronto, FS Dreamteam, KORD, and so on, I have seen better results on my computer when frames are locked at 30 or 45, and sure for bragging rights, I can get up to 120 frames, big deal!!!

Sure, so make a post called "30 Frames locked works for me". That's not what you did. You asked why people were concerned about frame rates, and then when people explained you keep insisting that it's "being macho" or "for bragging rights". That's pretty silly. Nobody here has bragged about their frame rate. Rather, a number of people have tried to explain why higher frame rates are important in certain use cases.

You also keep bringing back the dubious idea that "car racing" etc is somehow completely different. Motor racing simulation = moving objects that you want to be smooth. Flight simulation = also moving objects that you want to be smooth. Go and try flying a Spitfire or an aerobatic plane, and then explain to me how this is different from motor racing.

But more broadly, many have explained to you why they need or want more frames. Examples include:

• Smooth panning.
• Avoiding stutters during turns.
• Track IR.
• Professional sim use.
• VR

Frame rates are certainly not the be all and end all, because frame-to-frame smoothness is also important. It can certainly make sense to lock frames for smoothness. But in ideal world where performance is not an issue, it is very unlikely that the frame rate we would choose would be 30 FPS.  

At the end of the day, the whole post seems based on a straw-man argument that people are aiming for massive frame rates just for bragging rights/"being macho"/for the heck of it. But I think that literally zero people here are doing that. Many of us are, however, chasing the dream of better performance because smooth flight in demanding use cases is something that we value.