2 hours ago, flyhalf said:

Do the real 737's have EFB's or are PMDG just doing it because everyone now expects an EFB ?

To answer your question and try to bring this back to the topic opposed to 747 vs 380 now

Just because everyone expects one... 

It varies by operator and even operator it can vary by individual frame.  

There are frames with no EFB, frames with an integrated EFB installed as default equipment, EFB installed after market, EFB handhelds' (I-Pad or similar) so it can even vary by individual carrier within the fleet.

This photo clearly shows the velcro to stick a handheld

https://www.jetphotos.com/photo/10395577

Here is a brand new Max 8 without an EFB

https://www.jetphotos.com/photo/10395577

Another Max 8 clearly showing an I-Pad with a charger

https://www.aviationimagenetwork.com/Passenger-Airlines/Passenger-Airlines-F/Flydubai/Boeing-737-MAX-8/i-NnNQSBx/

 

So it appears it is NOT the default build option even for a brand new Max-8.   How are all these real world planes flying without one :EEK  🤯

5 minutes ago, Bobsk8 said:

Fenix is working on many fixes, and carefully testing them all before releasing a patch. The last thing they want is to release a patch with bugs in it, because some are impatient. 

I hear you Bob and I appreciate that from them but truth to tell the same could be said for any MSFS developers who actually do address issues, eventually.  Heck you COULD even say that for Carenado although I think I'd have to include that statement at confession its such egregious BS lol.....

Edited August 14, 20223 yr by badgenes
adverb change

28 minutes ago, Bobsk8 said:

Emirates is the only one flying the A 380 I believe. 

No Qantas still does too... go look up flightaware...

5 minutes ago, psolk said:

To answer your question and try to bring this back to the topic opposed to 747 vs 380 now

Just because everyone expects one... 

It varies by operator and even operator it can vary by individual frame.  

There are frames with no EFB, frames with an integrated EFB installed as default equipment, EFB installed after market, EFB handhelds' (I-Pad or similar) so it can even vary by individual carrier within the fleet.

This photo clearly shows the velcro to stick a handheld

https://www.jetphotos.com/photo/10395577

Here is a brand new Max 8 without an EFB

https://www.jetphotos.com/photo/10395577

Another Max 8 clearly showing an I-Pad with a charger

https://www.aviationimagenetwork.com/Passenger-Airlines/Passenger-Airlines-F/Flydubai/Boeing-737-MAX-8/i-NnNQSBx/

 

So it appears it is NOT the default build option even for a brand new Max-8.   How are all these real world planes flying without one :EEK  🤯

You do understand that a portable tablet is an EFB for all purposes of this discussion? The Max8 you show off clearly has a strap for a tablet, so it uses one - it's just been removed for the civilists sitting in the cockpit (or for any other reason). I can guarantee you there is no operator flying a 737 MAX and using performances tables on paper to calculate the assumed temperature...

3 hours ago, micstatic said:

Then Fenix in MSFS set the new mark of excellence for EFB.

Did they though? It is a very good EFB but I'm missing features that the FSL one had and some other EFBs like the FBW are on par with the Fenix imho. Was always wondering where they hype with the best EFB came from since I've used several and it's just as good but not necessarily on another level imho.

 

1 minute ago, threegreen said:

Did they though? It is a very good EFB but I'm missing features that the FSL one had and some other EFBs like the FBW are on par with the Fenix imho. Was always wondering where they hype with the best EFB came from since I've used several and it's just as good but not necessarily on another level imho.

 

From a design perspective it's pretty nice, but yeah, for real life procedures it's not yet there 100% (especially the take off perf calc). Also I miss the moving map from the FSL.

3 minutes ago, Fiorentoni said:

You do understand that a portable tablet is an EFB for all purposes of this discussion? The Max8 you show off clearly has a strap for a tablet, so it uses one - it's just been removed for the civilists sitting in the cockpit (or for any other reason). I can guarantee you there is no operator flying a 737 MAX and using performances tables on paper to calculate the assumed temperature...

I wonder if pilots even calculate the flex temp.  Isn't that a dispatch generated thing these days?

2 minutes ago, threegreen said:

Did they though? It is a very good EFB but I'm missing features that the FSL one had and some other EFBs like the FBW are on par with the Fenix imho. Was always wondering where they hype with the best EFB came from since I've used several and it's just as good but not necessarily on another level imho.

 

I love how the fenix shows you graphically with a runway the affect of numerous variables on your landing distance.  IE: Autobrake and reverse thrust etc.  I find the experience of the fenix to be better than the rest

1 minute ago, Fiorentoni said:

From a design perspective it's pretty nice, but yeah, for real life procedures it's not yet there 100% (especially the take off perf calc). Also I miss the moving map from the FSL.

I actually think the design is its biggest flaw. The slow animations and the way everything is just arranged, esp. the charts section, is sorta meh. 

18 minutes ago, Fiorentoni said:

You do understand that a portable tablet is an EFB for all purposes of this discussion? The Max8 you show off clearly has a strap for a tablet, so it uses one - it's just been removed for the civilists sitting in the cockpit (or for any other reason). I can guarantee you there is no operator flying a 737 MAX and using performances tables on paper to calculate the assumed temperature...

You do understand if it's a portable tablet then not every operator has to use it correct?  If it was factory installed and integrated into the aircraft I can understand the uproar, technically all PMDG have to model is a 737 with those straps and they delivered the plane to us exactly as Boeing delivers it to their customers.

If they are using an app an ipad it is probably company specific to each airline and then pilots manually input those numbers which is exactly what I do today.  They aren't importing a simbrief flightplan from the i-pad and Boeing isn't installing one on every frame.  They are giving operators the option of using their own.

It's like when GPS in a car was an option now most people wouldn't get into a car without one... It is NOT a fundamental part of operating the aircraft in my opinion it is a nice to have. 

Try telling all those 737 pilots in the air right now that they need an EFB or they need to land LOL...  

Edited August 14, 20223 yr by psolk

8 minutes ago, micstatic said:

I wonder if pilots even calculate the flex temp.  Isn't that a dispatch generated thing these days?

I love how the fenix shows you graphically with a runway the affect of numerous variables on your landing distance.  IE: Autobrake and reverse thrust etc.  I find the experience of the fenix to be better than the rest

Mostly dispatch (though many times it's a software rather than a person calculating the data according to the parameters that the pilot has sent via ACARS, so essentially it's the same just not via EFB but ACARS and a remote server) and you uplink the data into the FMC/FMGC, but not every airline does this and then you'd run the calculation on the EFB app. Also, I would think many airlines still have calculations for takeoff and landing in the EFB for redundancy or so that the pilots can run a few different calculations to see what works best before requesting the uplink with the desired parameters.

The Fenix EFB is good, but I'm missing things from the FSL like PDF display (MSFS limitation) and the map including weather information like sigmets and radar overlay in real time. You can also browse the web (even if that's beyond what a real EFB does and probably not much used either). It's features like these that still give the FSL EFB an edge over the Fenix for me.

PMDG needs to hire a marketing expert to translate Randazzo's "Yoda speak" into plain English. 

21 minutes ago, Chapstick said:

I actually think the design is its biggest flaw. The slow animations and the way everything is just arranged, esp. the charts section, is sorta meh. 

Now that you mention it, yes. I like FBW's more. I just think the Fenix one "looks" a bit cooler. Let's say the Fenix EFB is like an IPhone 🙂

1 hour ago, threegreen said:

The Fenix EFB is good, but I'm missing things from the FSL like PDF display (MSFS limitation) and the map including weather information like sigmets and radar overlay in real time. You can also browse the web (even if that's beyond what a real EFB does and probably not much used either). It's features like these that still give the FSL EFB an edge over the Fenix for me.

The web browser on the EFB is meaningless to me.  Not sure why anybody would even want that considering you can actually just open up an actual browser window.  I agree.  Those extra weather options on the FSL are nice.  But to me they don't move the needle over the fenix.  The thing about the fenix I like is actually the human factors side.  The layout.  Which directly translates to a good user experience.  I'm the first to admit I've almost forgot what the FSL efb looks like as I've discontinued flying in p3d.  

3 hours ago, psolk said:

You do understand if it's a portable tablet then not every operator has to use it correct?  If it was factory installed and integrated into the aircraft I can understand the uproar, technically all PMDG have to model is a 737 with those straps and they delivered the plane to us exactly as Boeing delivers it to their customers.

If they are using an app an ipad it is probably company specific to each airline and then pilots manually input those numbers which is exactly what I do today.  They aren't importing a simbrief flightplan from the i-pad and Boeing isn't installing one on every frame.  They are giving operators the option of using their own.

It's like when GPS in a car was an option now most people wouldn't get into a car without one... It is NOT a fundamental part of operating the aircraft in my opinion it is a nice to have. 

Try telling all those 737 pilots in the air right now that they need an EFB or they need to land LOL...  

I understand what you mean, but you were asking why people expect an EFB, not what Boeing delivers. If there's no real flight without EFB/tablet, that's why people expect that.
Going down your route of argumentation means PMDG should not do liveries either, because that's not plain Boeing.

Also you seem to totally forget that people are buying a product, and if PMDG wants to sell its product, they better deliver what people expect, no matter what you get when you buy a real aircraft from Boeing (what kind of comparison is this anyways??).

26 minutes ago, Fiorentoni said:

I understand what you mean, but you were asking why people expect an EFB, not what Boeing delivers. If there's no real flight without EFB/tablet, that's why people expect that.
Going down your route of argumentation means PMDG should not do liveries either, because that's not plain Boeing.

Also you seem to totally forget that people are buying a product, and if PMDG wants to sell its product, they better deliver what people expect, no matter what you get when you buy a real aircraft from Boeing (what kind of comparison is this anyways??).

No....

Did you miss this question:

4 hours ago, psolk said:

  6 hours ago, flyhalf said:

Do the real 737's have EFB's or are PMDG just doing it because everyone now expects an EFB ?

I was answering that question above directly that the reason PMDG needs to deliver an EFB is because "that is what people are asking for not because that's how the real plane is delivered." 

So basically I am agreeing with you and the only one arguing and apparently arguing with yourself is you... We said the same thing and you see it as an argument LOL

Edited August 14, 20223 yr by psolk