19 minutes ago, Vel said:

Thank you for providing details of the cheaper plan @GSalden. I stand corrected.

The value proposition for the service, even at 89.99/year is obviously one for each individual to evaluate. It clearly is the most accurate live traffic solution but for me, paying more for a subscription in 1 year than you would to own the base sim itself seems excessive.

(and yes, the same subscription model is used by Navigraph so this is not unique).

Value is in the eye of the beholder I guess.

This I totally agree with you.

Flightsim is a niche market and the MSFS itself has been sold more than 1 million times. The old FSX has been sold 21 million times.

Addons will never reach those amounts. So compared to MSFS itself they will always be more expensive ….

But if I arrive at an airport (LIML) and I see this it puts a smile on my face :

 

Edited October 14, 20223 yr by GSalden

21 hours ago, RALF9636 said:

That's a shame. We should push them a little.

No no, don't push. I have just made  good contact and they are certainly willing to fix the issue but due to staffing problems and priorities it may take a few months.

But it will be fixed.

 

48 minutes ago, kiek said:

No no, don't push. I have just made  good contact and they are certainly willing to fix the issue but due to staffing problems and priorities it may take a few months.

But it will be fixed.

 

Best news I’ve heard all day!! Glad to hear it’s being addressed! 

A bit late to the party here, much of what I would say has been covered in previous posts.

I will add though that I've use all of the following options PSXT/RT, FSTL, and AIG extensively.  All are great options with different strengths and weaknesses.

For my setup I have downloaded the entire AIG model and livery library and flightplans using AIG Manager.  I have also downloaded FSTL and its model library.  For PSXT, I've run the learner option on most of my favorite airports and have a pretty good database of realworld parking schedules.  For example, when running PSXT at LAX, it loads with an extremely precise layout of aircraft and liveries at the gates right off the bat.. even respective of time of day - very cool.

I have also installed Phantom's mod for GA traffic which allows the sim to add GA traffic depending on how I'm using the sim.

I love them all.  All of the options below help transform the already incredible immersion of the sim.  I can also attest to the passion that these developers give.  I've had personal exchanges with @kiek and made some requests for PSXT that he happily included in an update.  AIG is absolutely amazing with the sheer amount of aircraft, liveries and flightplans offered, all for free.  Kudos to them!  And I've really liked the simplicity and power of FSTL.

Below is my pro and con list.  Let me caveat that this is not "scientific".  I havent necessarily done extensive testing to prove my claims (e.g. something like amount of traffic vs real worl).  What you see is more of my 'feelings' of how things are working.  TBH I dont really have the time or desire to push more than that.  Point being, take this with whatever grain of salt you desire - my thoughts are just another 'data point' as it were, and far from an authority on the issue.

Here are the various ways I've run the sim with pros and cons

I) Asobo Default Real TIme Traffic with no outside traffic injection (with AIG & FSTL library):

PROS  - this option is by far the easiest on performance with minimal fps hit.
            - decent variety of real world liveries and planes sourced from AIG & FSTL libraries
            - planes work and call out to in game ATC and are effected by user's plane
            - jetways, baggage trucks, etc activate when planes park at gates

CONS  - suffers from Asobo's AI glitches i.e. go arounds, spinning in place, slow taxi
            - a lot less traffic than real life
            - no GA traffic - cant use Phantom's mod in this case (becuase of how it works)
            - traffic is based on real world time, so if you are flying off peak you will see diminished traffic no matter what sim time is

II) PSXT/RT w/o Phantom's GA Mod

PROS  - By far the most realistic behavior of planes at airports with good RT coverage: Accurate patterns, real taxi speed & holds.. It is copying REAL aircraft second by second so its as real as that gets.
             - Best option for "Plane Spotting".  I've spent hours with Live ATC played through VLC (with 20 sec offset) watching planes at major airports respond to gate holds, pattern changes, etc.  So geekily cool!
            - Decent GA, including helicopters!! (this requires you to edit some of the aircraft.cfg files of helicopters in your library to allow them to be used by AI)
            - Very Mild impact on FPS - heavier than option I) but not by much
            - You can offset time in RT so can adjust real world traffic to fit the time IN SIM .. and still see real world planes

CONS - The entire system is dependent on Transponder usage and RT coverage.
                  . some places in the world (like China) have very spotty coverage so you get no (or extremely minimal) aircraft
                  . if aircraft turn off their transponders before reaching the gate (like at most GA and even some INTL aiports) planes just disappear
                  . some people say movement is 'jittery' .. to me this is a 'sort of', doesnt really bother me, but I see their point
                  . In some unusual approaches, like to Reagan National in DC with a hard turn on final, PSXT's predictive system can send planes into the water on occasion.  This behavior has been reduced in
                        the latest version with more samples from RT
           - GA is good for some taxiing and takeoffs, but transponder use doesnt usually get a plane all the way to and from parking.
          - Jetways and vehicles dont react to planes parking (minor issue)
          - In game ATC doesnt know or call out the planes and they dont respond to your existance (minor issue)

III) PSXT/RT w/ Phantom's GA Mod

PROS - All of the above
          - more activity at GA airports to and from parking

CONS - (significant) can be a lot of clashing between REAL GA planes and the AI ones from the mod.  When I first tried this it didnt bother me that much, but over time I saw enough weirdness to drop it as an option

IV) AIG w/ AIG Traffic w/ Phantom's GA Mod

PROS - Good worldwide traffic coverage .. this was especially true in China with a lot of traffic with expected liveries
           - Huge flightplan database so you'll see a lot of realistic variety (not 'real time', but a plausible recreation of)
           - Good GA coverage
          - planes work and call out to in game ATC and are effected by user's plane
          - jetways and baggage trucks, etc activate when planes park at gates
          - Bases its AI coverage on the current time IN SIM, and its database of flightplans (all based on real world patterns), so you'll have good coverage whenever you fly.

CONS - suffers from Asobo's AI glitches, go arounds, slow taxi, spinning in place
           - traffic injector is a bit buggy and has a tendency to crash
          - Parking gate accuracy (i.e. real world correct airlines at gates) is only as good as the addon airports AFCAD file, so its hit or miss
          - Phantom's GA mod relies on Asobo, so it can occasionally result in strange behavior like GA aircraft parked at airliner gates
          - apart from Phantom's mod there would very little GA traffic and smaller airports are empty so you kind of need to use it.
          - This is the most frame heavy impact of the options here.  I have a top end rig and still struggle with Fenix at LAX with a full loadout.  Have to dial the numbers way back in that situation.
         - the AIG Manager has a higher learning curve and it does take a while to load and maintain your database.. but lets face it, simmers love long tedious tasks by definition! LOL

V) FSTL w/ Phantom's GA Mod, with AIG model library as backup

PROS - Like Asobo real time traffic option but with a far more complete coverage of realtime traffic.  (NOTE: I havent tested this in China like I did with AIG and PSXT)
           - FSTL's model database is very nice - high quality with great sounds and animations
          - by including AIG library as well as FSTL I rarely see "blank liveries"
          - Traffic injector is very stable and has a mild frame impact even at heavier airports (* NOTE to be fair I havent really tested this scientically side by side with AIG .. again just going on my impressions here from using both at
                the same airport with the same plane, but the tests were several weeks apart so there 'could' be more variables involved)
         - planes work and call out to in game ATC and are effected by user's plane
        - jetways and baggage trucks, activate wien planes park at gate
        - VERY easy setup and maintenance using FBW's installer

CONS - similar to AIG but without the frame hit or crashes of the inject. 
           -  Same issues with GA, but its worth noting that AIG DOES have flightplans for some GA corporate jets that does help flesh things out
          - Tied to the current real world time schedule so if you're flying off hours you'll see less traffic

 

The point of above is that there really isnt any PERFECT solution yet.  I still pick an option based upon what I want to do with sim on that session.  I'd say I alternate most between FSTL and PSXT/RT lately - using the first for flights and the second for plane spotting (I honestly cant believe how much time I spend as a VR ghost flying around airports listening to pilots and ATC as watching their virtual avatar planes.. I need help ;).  There are still some places in the world (like China) that restrict public access to transponders, etc) for with AIG is still your best option.  I also have to say that I DO like hearing planes called out on the in game ATC which favors FSTL/AIG/AsoboRT.  If Asono could ever sort out the AI problems then we could have the best of all worlds.

My advice, install them all and give them a shot.  There is no clear winner for every situation at the moment, but ALL of them do a great job of adding immersion to a virtual world.

Edited October 14, 20223 yr by VFXSimmer

@VXFSimmer Nice live traffic behavior compilation!

Let me add this one on the list:

https://flightsim.to/file/17289/enhanced-live-traffic

Pros: Easy to install and works based on realtraffic interpolation in the sim, correct aircraft parking and is Free

Cons: jurky taxi as the movement is based on flightradar24 traffic movement, weird landing behavior  and plane will disappear as soon they turn of transponder