Now... this IS bumpy....

[Sky_Pilot071 582]

Just something that ASOBO needs to shoot for.

sp

[LouP 116]

Must be an Alaska thing.  I just had one of these landings out in the Aleutians.  Thought I was going to start going in reverse at one point in the Grumman Goose.  🙂

LouP

[Lord Farringdon 528]

RW: This was certainly irritating turbulence but it wasn't much. When you get air under your derrière, and the straps got tight all around you then you know you got something a bit more edgy. Worst turbulence I experienced was on the flight deck of B727. For about 5-10 secs ( a very long time in cloud on approach) the turbulence was so severe none of us could properly focus on the instruments.  That was a bit scary. Wind shear had been reported. 

MSFS: I would have crashed since most of my concentration would have been spent chasing the mouse around the flight deck trying to flick switches and turn knobs!!

 

Cheers

Terry  

    

[Dillon 2,198]

On 10/31/2022 at 5:10 AM, Jeeeno said:

This video clearly demonstrates why the Asobo turbulence/gust model is not realistic. 

Wrong...😣 

Please go to a more satisfying experience that you would appreciate better.  Desktop gaming titles like 'Ace Combat' or maybe FSX will suit your needs better.  Stay in those forums and love what's offered.  Again gusts and turbulence is a factor everyday in the air in real world aviation.  After spending a great amount of time with SU10, the modded Longitude, and FSRealistic; Asobo hit it on the head with their gust depiction.  Some say it needs work but based on going out flying on a gusty day then coming back using the sim it's proving it's weight in gold to what I'm seeing in actual skies.  Although slightly off time wise the gusts off the runway and the frequency in the air that I experienced was pretty much accurate. I remember climbing up to 5,000ft and feeling the turbulence die down in the real world as I flew higher on a flight from KISM to KCLW.  Coming back to the sim after I returned home and seeing the same conditions marveled me. This happened on many different flights (not every flight) when the weather depiction was closer to real time (doesn't always happen, which needs to be fixed.  ActiveSky was far better in real time depiction).  Let's fave it Asobo's weather is nailing it in comparison to what we had before.  Honestly the effect of flying through storms on a plane is where Asobo needs to address but not much more than that.  Sometimes the cloud cover over an area is accurate to the real world but again that's either a server problem or the time is off by a few hours.  

This constant drum beat by the uninformed among us needs to challenged at every opportunity because like before they'll ruin it for all of us.  Case in point Fenix has brightened up their cockpit for an issue that's not really an issue in the sim but complained about and the engines sounds in the A320 now sound as if you're over the engines versus in the cockpit. All adjustments made for people who've never flown a plane much less a real Airbus.  This is how damaging these loud voices can be...😌😳

[Dillon 2,198]

5 hours ago, Lord Farringdon said:

MSFS: I would have crashed since most of my concentration would have been spent chasing the mouse around the flight deck trying to flick switches and turn knobs!! 

That's why a three person cockpit lost it's allure in MSFS for me.😬  Nothing but modern aircraft moving forward.  I even passed up on the Concord.  The old steam gauge 742 got sent out to pasture after FS9's Ready For Pushback (been their done that).  It's enough work managing a two crew operation (thanks goes out to FS2Crew), it's insanity trying to do the job a three people in a virtual cockpit..

[Dillon 2,198]

On 11/1/2022 at 6:04 AM, Alpine Scenery said:

it just felt more fluid in the old MS Flight, which is the reference I always use to judge wind turbulence in a sim.

You're comparing MSFS to MS Flight??? 😳  Wow, I'm speechless.  This explains allot and proves my point we have to push back on unrealistic observations/expectations.😐

[Alpine Scenery 1,609]

2 minutes ago, Dillon said:

You're comparing MSFS to MS Flight??? 😳  Wow, I'm speechless.  This explains allot and proves my point we have to push back on unrealistic observations/expectations.😐

I am only talking about straight line constant wind not pushing the aircraft to the side enough. MS Flight was the best at this.
Flew through a hurricane and it was too mild in MSFS.

It was easier landing than it would have been driving a car through it, and as I've driven through hurricanes before in a car, I know how bad it is.
So no, it was not realistic. 

Edited November 3, 2022 by Alpine Scenery

[Dillon 2,198]

5 minutes ago, Alpine Scenery said:

I am only talking about straight line constant wind not pushing the aircraft to the side enough. MS Flight was the best at this.
Flew through a hurricane and it was too mild in MSFS.

It was easier landing than it would have been driving a car through it, and as I've driven through hurricanes before in a car, I know how bad it is.
So no, it was not realistic. 

As I said above the storm gust depiction needs to be worked on but outside of that comparing anything about this sim to the failed arcade like MS Flight doesn't help your case.  I would choose another example because MS Flight although better than FSX's flight model if far from where we are today.😟

[Alpine Scenery 1,609]

Depends on the specific plane implementation I think, there are different issues, but I wouldn't say MS Flight was worse than MSFS flight model. They have different issues I think. I preferred the MS flight model for smaller planes landing in the wind, especially the crabbing.

 

Edited November 3, 2022 by Alpine Scenery

[ha5mvo 261]

21 minutes ago, Dillon said:

Wrong...😣 

Please go to a more satisfying experience that you would appreciate better.  Desktop gaming titles like 'Ace Combat' or maybe FSX will suit your needs better.  Stay in those forums and love what's offered.  Again gusts and turbulence is a factor everyday in the air in real world aviation.  After spending a great amount of time with SU10, the modded Longitude, and FSRealistic; Asobo hit it on the head with their gust depiction.  Some say it needs work but based on going out flying on a gusty day then coming back using the sim it's proving it's weight in gold to what I'm seeing in actual skies.  Although slightly off time wise the gusts off the runway and the frequency in the air that I experienced was pretty much accurate. I remember climbing up to 5,000ft and feeling the turbulence die down in the real world as I flew higher on a flight from KISM to KCLW.  Coming back to the sim after I returned home and seeing the same conditions marveled me. This happened on many different flights (not every flight) when the weather depiction was closer to real time (doesn't always happen, which needs to be fixed.  ActiveSky was far better in real time depiction).  Let's fave it Asobo's weather is nailing it in comparison to what we had before.  Honestly the effect of flying through storms on a plane is where Asobo needs to address but not much more than that.  Sometimes the cloud cover over an area is accurate to the real world but again that's either a server problem or the time is off by a few hours.  

This constant drum beat by the uninformed among us needs to challenged at every opportunity because like before they'll ruin it for all of us.  Case in point Fenix has brightened up their cockpit for an issue that's not really an issue in the sim but complained about and the engines sounds in the A320 now sound as if you're over the engines versus in the cockpit. All adjustments made for people who've never flown a plane much less a real Airbus.  This is how damaging these loud voices can be...😌😳

That's a long winded post that's basically saying "The turbulence model is accurate, because I say so!".

You need only to observe the wind vector on addons like PMDGs boeings or the fenix airbus or notice the seesaw yaw to realize that something is dead wrong. Ask those 3PDs - and they'll tell you the same!

[Jeeeno 314]

34 minutes ago, Dillon said:

Wrong...😣 

Please go to a more satisfying experience that you would appreciate better.  Desktop gaming titles like 'Ace Combat' or maybe FSX will suit your needs better.  Stay in those forums and love what's offered.  Again gusts and turbulence is a factor everyday in the air in real world aviation.  After spending a great amount of time with SU10, the modded Longitude, and FSRealistic; Asobo hit it on the head with their gust depiction.  Some say it needs work but based on going out flying on a gusty day then coming back using the sim it's proving it's weight in gold to what I'm seeing in actual skies.  Although slightly off time wise the gusts off the runway and the frequency in the air that I experienced was pretty much accurate. I remember climbing up to 5,000ft and feeling the turbulence die down in the real world as I flew higher on a flight from KISM to KCLW.  Coming back to the sim after I returned home and seeing the same conditions marveled me. This happened on many different flights (not every flight) when the weather depiction was closer to real time (doesn't always happen, which needs to be fixed.  ActiveSky was far better in real time depiction).  Let's fave it Asobo's weather is nailing it in comparison to what we had before.  Honestly the effect of flying through storms on a plane is where Asobo needs to address but not much more than that.  Sometimes the cloud cover over an area is accurate to the real world but again that's either a server problem or the time is off by a few hours.  

This constant drum beat by the uninformed among us needs to challenged at every opportunity because like before they'll ruin it for all of us.  Case in point Fenix has brightened up their cockpit for an issue that's not really an issue in the sim but complained about and the engines sounds in the A320 now sound as if you're over the engines versus in the cockpit. All adjustments made for people who've never flown a plane much less a real Airbus.  This is how damaging these loud voices can be...😌😳

 

There are so many wrong statements in this comment, I don't know where to start. I'll just ignore it. 

[mrueedi 702]

2 hours ago, ha5mvo said:

You need only to observe the wind vector on addons like PMDGs boeings or the fenix airbus or notice the seesaw yaw to realize that something is dead wrong. Ask those 3PDs - and they'll tell you the same!

Listen carefully. The issue is with these addons. The sim reports gusts in realtime much quicker than they are measured in reality. The sim updates the sim variables at a high frequency and the 3PDs are reading them. If they dont smooth the signal with a LP filter, it is their fault if the displays jump around. Because in reality the step response of the onboard wind estimation has a notable delay, which acts as a lowpass filter with easily 1 second rise time. That is the reason why wind indicators in real aicraft show slower reaction, than the ones in the sim, which for these addons seem to pass through step changes unfiltered. Here they could generate the source code for any type of filter they'd want...

I repeat, the sim is not broken if the sim variables are updated at a high rate. What you mentioned is an issue in the presentation layer, not the engine beneath it so to speak.

1 hour ago, Jeeeno said:

There are so many wrong statements in this comment, I don't know where to start. I'll just ignore it. 

The main message is spot on though.

Edited November 3, 2022 by mrueedi

[ha5mvo 261]

1 hour ago, mrueedi said:

Listen carefully.

Well, I think you misunderstood.

The sims problem is not the erratic DISPLAY.... it's the erratic response to the so-called turbulence. I'm sure now that you showed then, those 3PDs will know what to do to smooth out the nervous vector but that wasn't their major issue to begin with.

Edited November 3, 2022 by ha5mvo

[Bobsk8 12,869]

2 hours ago, Jeeeno said:

 

There are so many wrong statements in this comment, I don't know where to start. I'll just ignore it. 

Oh, I am sure you will make up something that is totally incorrect, as you usually do. 😉

[Alpine Scenery 1,609]

33 minutes ago, ha5mvo said:

Well, I think you misunderstood.

The sims problem is not the erratic DISPLAY.... it's the erratic response to the so-called turbulence. I'm sure now that you showed then, those 3PDs will know what to do to smooth out the nervous vector but that wasn't their major issue to begin with.

The issue seems to be a lack of clear direction and templating in the flight modeling system. Many developers have/had different ways of implementing the flight models, either using some of the default equations they can plug-in, or just making their own separately. Surely this is also affecting the way the planes respond. I am guessing it's a mish mash, so every time Asobo changes something, it affects one plane that-a-way and that other plane this-a-way.  It should have been a priority earlier on to finalize a turbulence API model and implement only minor changes layered on top, rather than to keep redoing the foundational structure of the model.

There are also still issues with the real-time wind reporting data they are getting in some places, though it seems to work in a narrower band. However, they change the foundation of stuff rather than just the bricks on top. I've seen this in all their dev stuff and throughout the SDK as well. Sometimes their changes make sense, but sometimes it's nonsense just changing stuff because they have nothing better to do.

Edited November 3, 2022 by Alpine Scenery