Helicopters, what do you think?

[Pastaiolo 1,688]

I am quite satisfied so far, especially satisfied in not seeing anymore that kind of bouncing that i always got in the Hype and the high speed instability with Fred's app.

 

About the 407, i was expecting it to fly a bit faster (in the 130knots range?). I tried my best but was very difficult to achieve it.

[Tuskin38 6,674]

4 minutes ago, Pastaiolo said:

About the 407, i was expecting it to fly a bit faster (in the 130knots range?). I tried my best but was very difficult to achieve it

Wikipedia says the max speed is 140kts, cruise speed 133.

[bbking 80]

The Bell 407 flies great, but the gimbal i have an issue: as soon as i lift off the ground mij rpm drops down and losing lift. I am using Saitek X52 Pro. Is there a command for increasing the rpm? And when not on runway where is the starter button? Honestly i have not looked into the directory in onestore finding a manual for the Gimbal helo.

[scotchegg 4,254]

14 minutes ago, bbking said:

lift. I am using Saitek X52 Pro.

Not used many helicopters before. Do you use throttle for collective? If so do you go the opposite way to planes (back for increased power)?

[Stoopy 1,614]

Just one short flight on the Bell 407 so far but am loving it.  Compares favorably with any of the AirtandFS-based helis but with the advantage of not needing external programs.   Still have yet to get deeper but liked what I saw so far, very much.

[Pastaiolo 1,688]

Checked again the 407, even at full throttle i cannot go faster than 110 knots or so.

[jimcarrel 688]

21 minutes ago, bbking said:

The Bell 407 flies great, but the gimbal i have an issue: as soon as i lift off the ground mij rpm drops down and losing lift. I am using Saitek X52 Pro. Is there a command for increasing the rpm? And when not on runway where is the starter button? Honestly i have not looked into the directory in onestore finding a manual for the Gimbal helo.

Sounds as if the throttle (not collective) is not functioning automatically. did you try control-E to see if it sets up correctly that way?

[crimplene 634]

For me both Helis start to spin and bank uncontrollably the moment I lift it off the ground. All controls seem to work fine - collective, pedals, cyclic. But still it goes crazy when taking off.

[styckx 1,872]

I can't fly them. Soon as I lift off it's a left spin and need to apply heavy right "rudder" to sort of correct it but it's otherwise a completely chaotic at best flight experience 

I

[Tuskin38 6,674]

I think the 40th came with helicopter tutorials.

[jimcarrel 688]

11 minutes ago, styckx said:

I can't fly them. Soon as I lift off it's a left spin and need to apply heavy right "rudder" to sort of correct it but it's otherwise a completely chaotic at best flight experience 

I

Both of these two helicopters require left pedal to keep straight on lift off. You must have control setup issues. Both of them work fine for me. I do find the Gimbal to be the best to manage.

[regis9 4,042]

As expected the H145 has spoiled me and I died in the 407.  Had fun up to that point though so time to keep practicing.

I also had a hard time getting much over 100 knots…throttle was set to “fly”.

[lwt1971 7,465]

I have a lot to learn about helis, but I'm keeping an eye on https://www.helisimmer.com/ as they seem to be the authority on helicopter simming.

Here are their initial thoughts (video below that just came out) with some excerpts I captured:
- "let me put it this way, when I heard about the new MSFS in 2019 I was really skeptical since FSX was not good with helicopters... they told me then I'd have to wait for them to do helicopters properly"
- "27 updates later, we have helicopters, and being the skeptical guy I am, I sat down with Asobo to try it all out with the Guimbal G2"
- "I don't try it with assistances, so I turned it all off, flew it, and I didn't crash ... I fly helicopters, if the flight model was bad I would be confused by it and then crash .. if the flight model was good, then I would do what I naturally do. I took off, did all my tests, ground effect, translational lift, few other things ... it all just felt great, guys, I was impressed"
- "it's not perfect of course, it needs work ... but it is pretty freaking good"
- "it was quite the experience, I am convinced, I am sold"
- "there were a lot of absolutely amazing details"
- "over 2 or 3 hour time I managed to talk to Sebastian a lot, it is absolutely incredible the amount of stuff they had to learn and then implement ... redo how rotor blades are influenced by forces ... rotor blades can have different densities in different section of a blade like the Guimbal and this is simulated
- "there was one thing I was really really impressed with .. the speed with which the flight dynamics and simulation is processed, updated 1000 times a second .. this just shows the amount of detail"
- "we are being heard ... they are listening, so always provide feedback to them"
- "something else I want you guys to know, Sebastian told me while this is not yet the best aircraft in the sim, the Guimbal G2 is the best one they have done in its first iteration"
- "I am pretty happy, pretty excited, this is the just beginning for helicopters ... we need to help them keep improving .. 3rd parties need to get on board for helis"
- "you can turn on the visualizations and see the CFD airflow, it's amazing"
- "everyone on the team are great ... I was really absorbed with everything Sebastian was saying , he is extremely passionate about flying, about the simulator, really smart guy"
 

Looks like helisimmer will be joining MS/Asobo to live stream testing/showing the helicopters in action next week (Tue 15th)

 

Edited November 11, 2022 by lwt1971

[jimcarrel 688]

For a 1st release I think I'm excited. All I could think of when thinking about choppers in MSFS 2020, was choppers in FSX. Oh, what junk they were. These 1st two are remarkable. Can hardly wait to see what they can do with them. 

[lwt1971 7,465]

Great how non-flight-sim media are giving such attention to MSFS, already seen articles on gizmodo, techcrunch, mobilesyrup and others, and there's this on theverge.com: 

https://www.theverge.com/2022/11/11/23452967/microsoft-flight-simulator-helicopters-gliders-interview

 

The helicopters, in particular, were challenging to add to Microsoft Flight Simulator. While the game was developed with planes in mind, there was always a desire to add more. “There’s never really been a really great helicopter sim,” says Neumann. “The manufacturers tell us that, too.”

 

And there’s a good reason for that: it’s hard. The physics involved with helicopters is far more complex than propeller planes or huge airliners like the Airbus A310. Helicopters are a totally different beast. Asobo has spent a long time meticulously examining the aerodynamics of helicopters and replicating them in Microsoft Flight Simulator.

The way the airflow works on a helicopter is largely from the top down. “It comes from the rotors and pushes down on the helicopter, so we had to increase the resolution of the specific turbulences a lot more around the actual helicopter.”

Things like translation lift have been perfected in-game to allow helicopters to realistically move from a hovering state to forward flight. That sounds simple, but it involves coding exactly how rotor systems react to turbulence and vortices created by hovering flight.

The Microsoft Flight Simulator team worked closely with helicopter manufacturers like Guimbal, also based in France. “We got full access to the manufacturing team, to their flight data, and we talked to their test pilots,” says Neumann. “That makes a huge difference when you’re trying to make something accurate.”

 

One of 14 helipads in Microsoft Flight Simulator.

Even dissymmetry of lift is covered in the game, which in rotorcraft aerodynamics, is the unequal amount of lift on opposite sides of a rotor disc. “In our case, it means you have to do something like flapping, which is essentially a hinge where the motor blades hang on and the hinges go up and down,” says Neumann. “These things go up and down and bend and tilt. This all had to be completely rewritten. It has never really existed before in a flight sim like this.”

 

“None of us had ever flown a helicopter before, but we had to,” admits Neumann. The result of the Asobo team taking helicopter flight lessons and two-hour trips to manufacturers translates into what Neumann describes as an “extraordinarily accurate” representation of helicopters in Microsoft Flight Simulator. You’ll be able to pick between a Bell 407 or a Guimbal Cabri G2, but third-party developers will be eager to add many more.

But Microsoft and Asobo’s work doesn’t stop here. While there are many famous helipads available in the game — like landing next to the pyramids in Egypt or the Christ the Redeemer statue in Rio de Janeiro — there’s a desire to map them all, not just the 14 available at launch today.

“It turns out there is no global database of heliports,” says Neumann. The broader aviation industry has codes for airports, and they’re all well documented, but helipads can be found on police stations, hospitals, private yachts, and oil platforms. So Asobo is creating its own database. “We are currently in the process of building this, from scratch, for the first time,” reveals Neumann.

 

Edited November 11, 2022 by lwt1971