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turbomax

my thoughts re. dynamic foveated rendering & eye tracking

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4K per eye resolution in VR is here: "Microsoft Flight Simulator and Project Cars ran absolutely smooth". check out the Pimax Crystal demo youtube below from MRTV. also check out "foveated rendering" through eye tracking which is very different from looking at a conventional full 2D-display giving you maximum resolution but only around a small spot your eye is currently looking at, as in Varjo aero, Sony's upcoming PSVR2 headset, Pimax Crystal, HP Reverb G2 Omnicept Edition, Quest Pro 2 etc:

"PSVR 2 Features Include Eye Tracking, Foveated Rendering And More

Beyond the PSVR 2 specs, the headset will have some big new features. The kit will be able to track the direction of your eyes, for example, to use a technique called foveated rendering. This is when an experience only fully renders the area of a screen you’re looking at; the rest isn’t fully rendered but this should "NOT" be noticeable in your peripheral vision. This should help dramatically improve performance on PS5."

HumanFovealAcuity-768x580.png.webp

ffr-intro.png

https://vr-expert.com/what-is-foveated-rendering-and-what-does-it-mean-for-vr/

https://uploadvr.com/quest-pro-foveated-rendering-performance/

https://mbucchia.github.io/OpenXR-Toolkit/fr.html

https://www.gamesradar.com/what-is-foveated-rendering/

 

 

 

Edited by turbomax
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Here's a question for you.. I hope I can present it in a comprehensible manner: if you have a VR headset with a resolution of X pixels per degree in each eye, is the stereo image you perceive have a higher perceived resolution than X (i.e. what you'd see on a 2D screen of the same resolution)?

It would seem to me that because the left image contains slightly different information than the right, you'd be able to perceive more detail together than from one individual image. If so, what is the effective resolution?  I haven't found anything to support this idea.

Edited by odourboy

13900K@5.8GHz - ROG Strix Z790-E - 2X16Gb G.Skill Trident DDR5 6400MT/s CL32 - MSI RTX 4090 Suprim X - XPG 2TB Gammix S70 Blade M.2 2280 - 58" Panasonic TC-58AX800U 4K - Pimax Crystal TBD - WinWing HOTAS Orion2 MAX - ProFlight Pedals - TrackIR 5 - W11 Pro (Passmark:12574, CPU:63110-Single:4785, GPU:50688)

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good question, but at 8.3 megapixels per eye I don't think I would be concerned. 😄

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This is how they get me.  Got a G2.  Need a new GPU.  Bought a new GPU.  Desire the Pimax Crystal.... need a new CPU and GPU again LOL!

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I've used a foveated rendering implementation in a mod for SteamVR while using the IL2 sim. I could notice the fuzzed up perifery and it was very distracting.  Perhaps for others it's not a such problem.


Rod O.

i7 10700k @5.0 HT on|Asus Maximus XII Hero|G.Skill 2x16GB DDR4 4000 cas 16|evga RTX 3080 Ti FTW3 Ultra|Noctua NH-D15S|Thermaltake GF1 850W PSU|WD Black SN750 M.2 1TB SSD (x2)|Plextor M9Pe .5TB NVMe PCIe x4 SSD (MSFS dedicated)IFractal Design Focus G Case

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2 hours ago, TheFamilyMan said:

I've used a foveated rendering implementation in a mod for SteamVR

 what head set, what resolution,42 PPD?,  dynamic foveated? it depends how it is implemented, lens type and quality, etc

Edited by turbomax

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Interesting video here on how various top VR headsets are performing with a 4090 for a variety of games including MSFS 2020:

 

 

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13900K@5.8GHz - ROG Strix Z790-E - 2X16Gb G.Skill Trident DDR5 6400MT/s CL32 - MSI RTX 4090 Suprim X - XPG 2TB Gammix S70 Blade M.2 2280 - 58" Panasonic TC-58AX800U 4K - Pimax Crystal TBD - WinWing HOTAS Orion2 MAX - ProFlight Pedals - TrackIR 5 - W11 Pro (Passmark:12574, CPU:63110-Single:4785, GPU:50688)

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16 hours ago, turbomax said:

 what head set, what resolution,42 PPD?,  dynamic foveated? it depends how it is implemented, lens type and quality, etc

Using my G2 HMD, which is listing in my signature.  I had my wires crossed on what forveated implementation I tried.  The OpenXR Toolkit has one which I tried and rejected, but also the openvr_frs mod for SteamVR has a less advanced implementation that I also tried, which I found somewhat lacking.  Do you have any experience with a foveated VR implementation?


Rod O.

i7 10700k @5.0 HT on|Asus Maximus XII Hero|G.Skill 2x16GB DDR4 4000 cas 16|evga RTX 3080 Ti FTW3 Ultra|Noctua NH-D15S|Thermaltake GF1 850W PSU|WD Black SN750 M.2 1TB SSD (x2)|Plextor M9Pe .5TB NVMe PCIe x4 SSD (MSFS dedicated)IFractal Design Focus G Case

Win 10 Pro 64|HP Reverb G2 revised VR HMD|Asus 25" IPS 2K 60Hz monitor|Saitek X52 Pro & Peddles|TIR 5 (now retired)

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10 hours ago, TheFamilyMan said:

1) Using my G2 HMD,  2) Do you have any experience with a foveated VR implementation?

1) HP G2 does NOT have eye tracking, hence no dynamic foveated rendering, instead a very tiny fixed sweet spot. Thread title and the whole point is DYNAMIC foveated rendering via ey tacking. that's why I plan to replace my HP G2.

2) not yet. the description of that technology and the youtubes of the Pimax Crystal or Varjo Aero users/testers were great and convincing enough for me to order one.

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I think that the idea of using eye tracking to mimic what I call focal depth in VR is spot on, and for it to be of true value it's got be be coupled with a huge VR sweet spot which the Varjo Aero has.  I got a bit misdirected that foveated rendering was more about economizing graphics performance vs. mimicking human visual perception. So here's a little 'thought experiment' to consider on the ideal implementation of DFR:  You're in your VR sim, flying along and you notice a highly detailed UFO flying about 25m away from you at your 1 o'clock low, and there are some lovely forested mountains about 3km from you at the same LOS as the UFO.  Now if the eye tracking and DFR is done correctly, when you focus on the UFO the mountains will be blurred in the manner that yours eyes expect in IRL, and if you now focus on the mountains just next to the UFO, the UFO will now be blurred as described.  Will the MSFS rendering stack to your HMD be capable of dealing with rendering this DFR scenario correctly?

Edit: IMO this is goal of the perfect VR experience, when game engines have this eye tracking DFR built in coupled with HMDs to drive it...now we're talking!

Edited by TheFamilyMan

Rod O.

i7 10700k @5.0 HT on|Asus Maximus XII Hero|G.Skill 2x16GB DDR4 4000 cas 16|evga RTX 3080 Ti FTW3 Ultra|Noctua NH-D15S|Thermaltake GF1 850W PSU|WD Black SN750 M.2 1TB SSD (x2)|Plextor M9Pe .5TB NVMe PCIe x4 SSD (MSFS dedicated)IFractal Design Focus G Case

Win 10 Pro 64|HP Reverb G2 revised VR HMD|Asus 25" IPS 2K 60Hz monitor|Saitek X52 Pro & Peddles|TIR 5 (now retired)

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On 12/2/2022 at 5:37 AM, ryanbatc said:

This is how they get me.  Got a G2.  Need a new GPU.  Bought a new GPU.  Desire the Pimax Crystal.... need a new CPU and GPU again LOL!

 

I almost went that way, but after clearing my head and try too think things true, I decided to stay with my g2 and gtx3080ti, it runs decent for me. Then I will wait for GTX5000 series and the latest intel CPU, then go for Chrystal, or if something better shows up by the time the gtx5090 arrive:), and Im sure it will blow my mind. I buy the gtx4090, im sure I will regret when the 5090 comes. I did that mistake with my gtx3080ti, bought it just before the 4000 series, if I just had patience to wait 3 months....

Edited by Kaboki

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Just reserved a Crystal, chose it over then Varjo aero. Let’s hope the gamble Pays off!

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7 hours ago, Ianrivaldosmith said:

Just reserved a Crystal, chose it over then Varjo aero. Let’s hope the gamble Pays off!

Misery loves company!

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13900K@5.8GHz - ROG Strix Z790-E - 2X16Gb G.Skill Trident DDR5 6400MT/s CL32 - MSI RTX 4090 Suprim X - XPG 2TB Gammix S70 Blade M.2 2280 - 58" Panasonic TC-58AX800U 4K - Pimax Crystal TBD - WinWing HOTAS Orion2 MAX - ProFlight Pedals - TrackIR 5 - W11 Pro (Passmark:12574, CPU:63110-Single:4785, GPU:50688)

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