US government scientists have made a breakthrough in the pursuit of limitless, zero-carbon power by achieving a net energy gain in a  fusion reaction for the first time, according to three people with knowledge of preliminary results from a recent experiment.

 A major announcement is scheduled to take place at LLNL on Tuesday, Dec. 13. It's expected to be livestreamed by the Department of Energy at approximately 7 a.m. PT.

 

https://www.cnet.com/science/climate/a-fusion-energy-breakthrough-major-announcement-expected-from-us-scientists/

 

 

 

OK!  Open for business but be wary of going off track! 

Thank you Charlie.

I don't know a lot about fusion and other things they talk about here but I like to follow the threads.  They are educational for me at least.  I think if we can self moderate these threads and ignore and not respond to replies that pull us off topic or become argumentative we can keep them going.  We should be mature and disciplined enough to do that.

This post has nothing to do with fusion energy so please don't respond to it.

Noel

Edited December 13, 20223 yr by birdguy

https://www.cbc.ca/news/science/us-fusion-announcement-1.6682497

Important to understand that yes, this is a very significant breakthrough... but its in regard to "Q" not "Q Total" Q Total is the energy requirement of the entire plant. And a working reactor that feeds energy to the grid needs to generate Q Total above the plants requirement. This is the energy that is used to heat the plasma that has been surpassed by the reaction itself. Only enough to light a lightbulb. 

So yes, incredible breakthrough, but a working reactor will need to boost the energy output well beyond this achievement. Cost down and energy output up is the challenge.

What with this breakthrough and the fantastic work being done by companies like General Fusion, its good news indeed. 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-63950962

 

 

Quote

 

Prof Jeremy P. Chittenden, professor of plasma physics and co-director of the Centre for Inertial Fusion Studies at Imperial College London called it "a true breakthrough moment".

"It proves that the long sought-after goal, the 'holy grail' of fusion, can indeed be achieved," he said.

This has been the sentiment echoed by physicists globally, who praised the work of the international science community.

Prof Gianluca Gregori, Professor of Physics at the University of Oxford said: "Today's success rests upon the work done by many scientists in the US, UK and around the world. With ignition now achieved, not only fusion energy is unlocked, but also a door is opening to new science."

On the question of how long before we could see fusion being used in power stations, Dr Budil, the LLNL director, said there were still significant hurdles but that: "with concerted efforts and investment, a few decades of research on the underlying technologies could put us in a position to build a power plant".

 

 

 

 

Edited December 13, 20223 yr by martin-w

From what I heard on the news this morning their initial goal of more power out than what it took to do it was achieved.  In other news, it took a heck of a lot of power just to get the lasers up to speed.  My question would be are the lasers on full time after their initial startup?  I would guess they must be. 

 

52 minutes ago, charliearon said:

From what I heard on the news this morning their initial goal of more power out than what it took to do it was achieved.  In other news, it took a heck of a lot of power just to get the lasers up to speed.  My question would be are the lasers on full time after their initial startup?  I would guess they must be. 

 

 

Don't know for sure, but I suspect they would be energising banks of capacitors, something like that. The laser shot itself would be brief. Millionth of a second, something like that.

It's not more power than the entire facility. It's only enough power out to light a lighbulb.

Edited December 13, 20223 yr by martin-w

Yes, the laser amplifiers are fed from capacitors.

Incidentally, the engine room in Star Trek was filmed in the NIF. 

 

Edited December 13, 20223 yr by martin-w

I find it very difficult to get enthusiastic about the "progress" being made with respect to nuclear fusion reactors. At this rate, it will be the 31st Century before we see anything productive.

1 hour ago, Christopher Low said:

I find it very difficult to get enthusiastic about the "progress" being made with respect to nuclear fusion reactors. At this rate, it will be the 31st Century before we see anything productive.

 

I suspect it will be a team like General Fusion that gets there first Chris. Great what's been achieved at NIF, but its just an experiment to achieve fusion, so nothing like a working reactor would be. In fact the facility was originally built to research nukes.

General Fusion on the other hand are working on a true reactor.

https://generalfusion.com/

ITER is well under construction of course but won't ever feed energy to the grid

Edited December 13, 20223 yr by martin-w

2 hours ago, Christopher Low said:

I find it very difficult to get enthusiastic about the "progress" being made with respect to nuclear fusion reactors. At this rate, it will be the 31st Century before we see anything productive.

This experiment is very different from what scientists have tried before. Since the 1960s, plasma physicists tried to capture a plasma (a gas of charged particles) that is 100 million degrees hot. At the NIF, they instead shoot a nuclei with intense X-ray laser beams. A beautiful concept which I have been following for 15 years. We are not there yet when it comes to fusion reactors, but in my opinion, the laser approach seems to have the potential to get us there within 10-20 years.

Peter

Look up the history of the electric bulb sometime.  Several people were working on them years before Edison and Tesla.  They were never feasible before that because they either didn't last long or required expensive filaments made of platinum.

But more modern light bulbs became available when Edison came up with the carbon filament.

They kept improving and fluorescent and neon gas bulbs emerged and more recently LED bulbs which most of us use now.   

Technology takes a while to get started and then mistakes are made that steer scientists in other directions and eventually products are developed that come into common use.

Just because the early experiments in fusion are expensive, complicated, and cumbersome doesn't mean the problems won't be worked out, better techniques will evolve, and eventually fusion will become a viable energy source. 

I agree with Peter.  Fusion energy has to 'grow up' so to speak.  But I am optimistic.

Noel

13 hours ago, qqwertzde said:

laser approach seems to have the potential to get us there within 10-20 years.

 

Although how you would design a reactor capable of feeding fuel pellets into the reactor once every second, energizing an ultra powerful laser that fast, (currently takes an inordinate amount of time) and zapping the pellets, then extracting the energy  is a question I ponder. Not quite sure how they would design a reactor like that. 

The General fusion approach seems much more viable as a working reactor too me (or one of the other smaller scale concepts). And they have reactor designs on the drawing board. Small, cost effective, practical and probably sooner... although of course I could be 100% wrong. 🙄

 Cant help thinking it will be one of these guys that does it, rather than NIF and their large scale laser concept. 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 14, 20223 yr by martin-w

5 hours ago, martin-w said:

 

The NIF fuel pellet itself is quite the feat of micro engineering. Its a BB sized diamond shell that has to be exquisitely smooth. It has a micro fine straw attached to it through which you install the fuel. How on Earth you would make thousands of these little marvels for a working reactor, in a cost effective manner, I have no idea.

Edited December 14, 20223 yr by martin-w

1 hour ago, martin-w said:

How on Earth you would make thousands of these little marvels for a working reactor, in a cost effective manner, I have no idea.

My grandfather would have said, "How on Earth would you make thousands of little bits on a silicon chip the size of a dime and store the Encyclopedia Britannic on less than half of it?  I have no idea."

Noel