Fenix A320 or PMDG 737

[holland786 504]

18 hours ago, Maxis said:

Have FBW managed to include proper FINAL APP in their RNAV/RNP  approaches yet

No - until AAU1, the data required was not available in the sim.

This is now possible and will come with FMS v2.

[Maxis 2,011]

2 minutes ago, holland786 said:

No - until AAU1, the data required was not available in the sim.

This is now possible and will come with FMS v2.

Fair. 

Thanks for the update

[Noel 4,649]

1 hour ago, Bobsk8 said:

I guess I am spoiled now, with the ease of flying the A 320, and will probably just stay with it.

Coming from Boeing in P3D it really was is a snap to pick up flying the MSFS version it's essentially the same of course.  My brain is still wired for Boeing FMC but that is familiarity more than logic perhaps.  The A320NX MCDU seemed hard to understand for the first few days (cuz I was initially a little lazy on reading FBW's incredibly useful tutorials covering every aspect of that Airbus in a super easy to follow format).  3 weeks out now it's easy to follow and very pleasant which is why I'm starting to lean heavily towards Airbus.  I was flying the OEM B78X HD to relax with but it was a little too easy.  I'm looking forward to FBW A380 and am hopeful they are continuing to optimize the A320NX.  If they nail down the stutter issue it will really be sweet.  I very much appreciate the FBW imports both MSFS World Map OFP as well as Simbrief's.  

Here's a peak at PMDG 738's performance at the world's biggest metropolitan area, Tokyo.  From the 3 flights I've done with it I'm noticing a substantial improvement in what was already excellent performance. This is all Ultra, 16x/8x, O-LOD 200, T-LOD 130 (fps upper left corner framed):

Dips down to 42fps or so during taxi to this spot:

Edited February 10, 2023 by Noel

[BrammyH 502]

39 minutes ago, Noel said:

3 weeks out now it's easy to follow and very pleasant which is why I'm starting to lean heavily towards Airbus.

I am in the same boat, and with the headwinds A330 using FBWs avionics (and cargo liveries) I am also leaning heavily Airbus. To the point I am shushing my inner rivet counter and deciding Southwest is now an Airbus shop!

[Bobsk8 13,200]

Well, I finally broke down and just bought  the 737 600. Fired it  up, flew a pattern, and landed it for the first time, hand flying, and 200 FPM. Guess I haven't lost the 737 touch in all these years. 

Edited February 10, 2023 by Bobsk8

[Bobsk8 13,200]

I flew my first VA Flight this afternoon in the just purchased 737-600. I felt like I was doing my first solo in an aircraft, and being that the  Acars that records everything for the VA, I certainly did not want to really screw up on this flight. I flew from KSEA to KBZN. I wondered what the approach and landing would be like, because I have been struggling with the Fenix on landing it , since I bought it. I even got some feedback from my VA regarding some of my rather firm A 320  landings. So if I botch this 737 landing, which will be my first, it wouldn't look good. Anway the flight went well, approach into KBZN was smooth as silk, and my 737 first  landing rate was 145FPM.   Guess what I am going to be flying all the time now?     😀😀

[RALF9636 2,047]

On 2/8/2023 at 6:23 PM, Noel said:

I achieved performance Nirvana a couple of months ago after a lot of trial and testing so no not suffering with performance--just will not jeopardize that for anything.  And when you say most people can run it no problems--what does that mean?  Everyone will have their own criteria and I have my own.  I have liquid smooth, near-zero frame time variance, nary a stutter anywhere in any airport in any plane that I use:  PMDG 738, FBW A320NX, AS CRJ700.  My system is not GPU-limited ever in fact it's a long ways from that always w/ how I'm configured.

Tell me, IYO what are the main reasons for you for Fenix over FBW?  What is so much better, what is $60 better? This is really the crux of it from what I see not having flown the Fenix but having watched various videos.

FYI, I just tested the latest dev version of the FBW and can confirm that the stutters are gone on my system. 

I also compared the performance to the Fenix and found that the FBW performs about 5 - 10 % better than the Fenix. On my - quite old - system (8700K, 1080 TI, generally CPU-limited) that meant that with the Fenix I had between 26 and 30 FPS and with the FBW between 28 and 32 on my test flight around a busy airport. For me that small performance difference would be no reason to stay away from the Fenix.

My comparison flights also confirmed to me that I find the Fenix so much more immersive. It is hard to point out specific differences. It is more the overall feel and the small details that the FBW lacks. For example the right MCDU not being independent from the left MCDU in the FBW. To me it makes a big difference in regard to immersion to know that everything the aircraft does is realistic and I don't have to wonder if this is just something that is not (yet) implemented correctly.

So if you like the Airbus and can afford the $60, don't miss out on it.

 

P.S.: And you can land the Fenix with consistent landing rates just like you can with the FBW...

 

Edited February 12, 2023 by RALF9636

[Bobsk8 13,200]

Many on this thread suggested I get the PMDG 737. I got it about a week ago, and haven't flown anything since. I bought the 737-600, and I love the way it flies and lands..I am even thinking of adding to the PMDG hangar in the future and getting the 737-800. This aircraft is spectacular. 

[Tom Wright 465]

Yes I have both the Fenix A320 and the 737(-700) but I must say I fly the PMDG a lot more. It is superb and the performance on my machine is night and day better with the 737. I can't wait for PMDG to bring out the 777.

Edited February 16, 2023 by Tom Wright

[BrammyH 502]

I have a few general 737 questions:

- Is there an easy way to see how far away from an airport I am? I like how on the A320 it is on the bottom of the legs list.

- I am struggling with N1/N2, N1 buttons and speed buttons. It seems like the AP/AT kinda just chooses on its own? I set the option to display the physical throttle location on the N1 screen to try and help when I come off AT, but last night the screen just said N2.

- So, I guess, other than the usual YouTube videos from Emi, is there a good written reference for newbies? I am afraid the Mike Ray books might be too over my head.

[Noel 4,649]

On 2/12/2023 at 2:09 PM, RALF9636 said:

So if you like the Airbus and can afford the $60, don't miss out on it.

Thanks Ralf that is useful and reasonable comparison.  That being said I'm not driven quite as much by the fidelity of the Fenix over the FBW than others might be and the performance being even 10-15% better in the FBW will matter more to me. In that same example, having independent MCDU is something I'm just not going to notice in fact haven't paid any attention to it.  I do value the extra 10% improvement as this takes care of FSLTL's impact pretty much as a straight match. 

If Fenix has a sale I might reconsider, or not, very happy w/ FBW's version, love it's Flybag, etc.  

Cheers

[Noel 4,649]

7 minutes ago, BrammyH said:

I have a few general 737 questions:

- Is there an easy way to see how far away from an airport I am? I like how on the A320 it is on the bottom of the legs list.

Distance from Arrival is on the PROG page of the FMC.

[threexgreen 3,315]

5 hours ago, BrammyH said:

- I am struggling with N1/N2, N1 buttons and speed buttons. It seems like the AP/AT kinda just chooses on its own? I set the option to display the physical throttle location on the N1 screen to try and help when I come off AT, but last night the screen just said N2.

The FMC chooses the N1 limit setting automatically, going from TO (or TO-1, TO-2, TO-R), CLB (or CLB-1 or -2), CRZ to GA. You don't really have to do anything there unless you want to choose manually on the FMC N1 limit page, like using max continuous thrust to get through turbulence quicker in the climb, for example. Otherwise it's on auto by default. N1 mode (corresponding to the button on the MCP) is mostly used automatically by the FMC for N1 (thrust) setting and you don't use it much manually unless you want to for some reason. Otherwise you use speed for manual speed selection, which in VNAV is managed automatically as well (speed window is closed but can be overridden by pressing speed intervention).

N1 is the low pressure compressor right behind the big fan, N2 the high pressure compressor behind that. For thrust setting you look at N1, for fuel introduction during engine start at N2 (25%) and otherwise just monitor it. Not sure what you mean by the screen just said N2 though.

Edited February 16, 2023 by Nixoq

[Bobsk8 13,200]

I have had the PMDG 737-600 now for about two weeks, and have flown it with my VA for  approximately 40 flights. I have done RNAV approaches, a few with DME Arcs to final, hand flying visual approaches, using the HUD to fly the ILS approaches to minimums, and everything works perfectly. The main reason I got the 737, after flying the Fenix since it was introduced, was the inconsistent landings I was getting from the Fenix. I had tried everything trying to getting landing the Fenix sorted out, and every landing was still an adventure,with many times poor results. I have been flying tube liners in flight sims for decades, and I even had some time on an Airline Full motion 767-400  sim, with about 9 landings, with only one that was a bounce because I flared too high. I  have never had any problem landing in sims or in real life, so the Fenix just didn't seem to work for me. I bought the 737-600, and my first landing was great, and so have every one of the landings since then. My average landing rate is around 170 FPM. I did some research on this issue and used the data that my VA has on all the flights of almost 1,000 pilots. After you land, on their website you can see the landing FPM of each aircraft. Whenever I would see an A 320 land with a high FPM landing rate  between about 250-400 fpm, and looked at the aircraft the pilot was flying,almost exclusively, they were the Fenix A 320 aircraft. 

This morning, I purchased the PMDG 737-800, and can't wait to fly it when I get home from work this afternoon. I find the 737's require more interaction that the Airbus A 320, and I feel like I am more in control of the 737, as opposed to the Airbus kind of flying by itself. Sometimes, when landing the Airbus, I feel like the aircraft has a mind of it's own, and I never feel like that when landing the 737. I have been hand flying almost every landing from around 1000 feet agl, in all kinds of turbulence, and crosswinds, and always manage to get a good landing. The only thing I noticed when using the HUD for approach, is that if it is a very windy and turbulent approach, the HUD, for me, is pretty difficult to use. On a couple of really bumpy  approaches, I just closed the HUD, and flew the rest of the approach looking out the window. 

The one thing I have heard people complain about is the lack of an EFB, and after using the Fenix EFB which works very well, I thought this was going to bother me with the 737. In fact, I find that setting up the 737 for a flight, takes just about the same time and effort as setting up the Fenix with the EFB. Everything is done on the FMC, Simbrief flight plans are loaded right into the 737, and a couple of mouse clicks in the FMC, and the FP is loaded in. Set the weights, fuel, departing runway, and flaps, and you are ready to go. Even cold and dark, it is pretty quick to set up. PMDG has done a great job with the 737. 

 

Edited February 23, 2023 by Bobsk8

[BrammyH 502]

I bought the Fenix a few weeks ago and am enjoying it.

If the ToC/ToD stuff was in the stable version of the FBW, I am not sure I would bought the Fenix. A few weeks ago they introduced some bugs (now fixed, I believe) with waypoints on the MCDU. It just reminded me of the nature of expiramental builds and open source development. 

But knowing me, and how on the fence I've been for a while on buying the Fenix, this is likely the made-up casus belli I needed to push me over the edge.

I have not flown the FBW since I got the Fenix. but I imagine I will in the future. Sometimes, I do want to save the time for setting things up.

I switch back and forth between the Fenix and 738, and wow that is a mental shift.. I REALLY need to remember to keep my checklists up for the two aircraft.

Edited April 6, 2023 by BrammyH