13900K - Hyperthreading on or off?

[Ray Proudfoot 9,038]

Has there been any official guidance from Microsoft / Asobo on this?

Users of P3D v5 HF2 will know LM issued recommendations as to how to configure the three main cores. Has the same happened for MSFS?

[bobcat999 8,503]

28 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

Has there been any official guidance from Microsoft / Asobo on this?

No, but it would be helpful, including telling us what some of the settings do in the user config file etc.

From my own analysis, I can see that MSFS does use at least 8 cores if they are there, but it uses two in the main. 
This does confuse me, as it some people report their sim is 'main thread' limited in the internal diagnostics available in dev mode, but I definitely have two main threads running at close to 100% utilisation, whereas the others do show some activity, but normally around 50%.

Edited February 14, 2023 by bobcat999

[Ray Proudfoot 9,038]

1 minute ago, bobcat999 said:

No, but it would be helpful, including telling us what some of the settings do in the user config file etc.

Perhaps ask the question on the official forum. Most if not all would benefit from knowing the best settings.

[G-RFRY 1,726]

With HT off and E cores disabled the 13900K was found to run at 5.6ghz no problem on an AIO. According to Buildzoid E cores doing nothing in Gaming.

[bobcat999 8,503]

1 minute ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

Perhaps ask the question on the official forum. Most if not all would benefit from knowing the best settings.

Yes, obviously a good idea, however with previous attempts, it seems they are reluctant as they think people shouldn't be messing with the config file.
And it isn't the most responsive place for these requests (although they are good at dealing with bugs in there now).

It is true, a lot can go wrong if you edit the config file incorrectly (as with any sim), but for me, editing shadows to 8192 from the maximum 2048 on the sims internal maximum on the slider, was the only thing that stopped the dreaded shadows from flickering with a feathered edge inside the sim.  Lovely crisp shadows now, with minimal performance loss.  This is just one example.

[JSmith2112 317]

I'd leave HT on at all times. If there really was a benefit to turning it off the hardware reviewers on Youtube would be shouting it from the rooftops and berating Intel for even having it.

[SierraDelta 1,355]

41 minutes ago, bobcat999 said:

but I definitely have two main threads running at close to 100% utilisation, whereas the others do show some activity, but normally around 50%.

Sounds like you're on Win10? In Win11 I see all P-cores having an even workload distribution, around 90%, whereas my 8 E-cores are humming along at 10-20% (I have disabled 8 of the E-cores)

Oh yeah - HT turned OFF after extensive testing. It doesn't make any difference for me at all.

[psolk 3,057]

Not sure what P3D has to do with any of this but MSFS doesn't need the same affinity masking and core prioritizing that P3D did, especially with newer HW...  I have both on my system and I don't even worry about ProcessLasso on my MSFS OS.  MSFS was set it and forget it.  DLSS enabled, everything ultra, 100+FPS and butter smooth performance unlike anything I've ever seen in a sim even in the 737. I don't even check my core usage because it's working so well.  It makes coming back to P3D really tough but that's still where I will be later today for a good 787 😞  

To be fair, LM also did not make AM settings "easy" for people.  It's not like there is a handy key or chart saying "set this for this cpu..." I also don't remember them making a firm statement on HT on or off, I thought we figured that out with trial and error but could be wrong.   Regardless, you have to understand binary and the inner workings of your CPU architecture to make it work correctly and then hand modify your .cfg file...  That's why their are extensive threads with people asking for advice in the P3D forums.   I personally set the incorrect AM settings because I am frankly not great in Binary and the P Cores and E Cores were brand new to P3D with the 12 series CPU's and my P3D looked and performed horribly so while that capability is there it is neither intuitive, nor straightforward and it requires the end user to optimize performance on their machine AND can have adverse implications if set incorrectly.   Thank Goodness for Bob Scott correcting me because P3D looks and performs much better now but MSFS didn't need any of that tweaking to perform more than twice as well as P3D with a much higher level of detail to boot...  

To me it seems more hassle than it's worth for a sim where very few complain about performance out of the box.    

As for MSFS, no AffinityMasks, HT on and I still don't top 60C on my 12700K to hit 120FPS almost everywhere... Interestingly I was using an MSI LGA1700 adapter kit and failing Prime95 as the CPU would peak at 97C and shut down.  Changed to the Corsair and I don't top 80C even in Prime95.  It seems the MSI LGA1700 Adapter pins don't allow the cooler to make contact with all the cores, the top 20% of my cpu had no contact between the cooler and the CPU!  I have written to them for clarification but in the interim switched back to a Corsair cooler and extremely pleased, it runs MSFS at ~45-52C 🙂  

Edited February 14, 2023 by psolk

[HiFlyer 9,372]

All of these comments about heat is exactly why after doing a lot of reading and watching videos, I took a chance and went for a 13600k rather than immediately assuming that a possibly toasty 13900 was a necessity.

I also took a chance and went for an NVIDIA 4070 TI rather than shooting for the moon immediately and racing for a 4090.

If the 4070 proved inadequate, I would have returned it and maybe gone for 4080 or 4090, but again, this was a calculated risk, and so far I'm happy with the results of low 70s under load for temperatures on the processor with HT on and everything stock, which is about 5.1 GHz.

The 4070 doesn't seem to even be breaking a sweat, and greater than 100 frames per second even with traffic turned on at a busy major airport (KBOS) in the FBW A320, is all fine with me.

A lot of the Alchemy and rocket science people appear to be doing... I'm not really sure all of that is necessary.....?

If I had gone for a 13900 processor, one video in particular had given me hope that I might be able to defeat some of the wild temps people were reporting.

 

Edited February 14, 2023 by HiFlyer

[SierraDelta 1,355]

2 minutes ago, HiFlyer said:

All of these comments about heat is exactly why after doing a lot of reading watching, I took the chance and went for a 13600k rather than immediately assuming that a possibly toasty 13900 was a necessity.

In MSFS you will not have any heat problems with a 13900K. Yesterday I measured an average of 64 degrees, max 74 on a 2-hour flight EGLL - LEBL in the Fenix A320. 

[SierraDelta 1,355]

29 minutes ago, psolk said:

Not sure what P3D has to do with any of this but MSFS doesn't need the same affinity masking and core prioritizing that P3D did, especially with newer HW...  I have both on my system and I don't even worry about ProcessLasso on my MSFS OS.  MSFS was set it and forget it….

Well said 😉

 

[bobcat999 8,503]

1 hour ago, SierraDelta said:

Sounds like you're on Win10? In Win11 I see all P-cores having an even workload distribution, around 90%, whereas my 8 E-cores are humming along at 10-20% (I have disabled 8 of the E-cores)

Oh yeah - HT turned OFF after extensive testing. It doesn't make any difference for me at all.

Yes Søren, I must stress, the difference between HT on and off, is slight, but I get less stuttering with it off. 

Certainly I am happy with HT off, and I never think that the sim is annoying me with lack of frame rate or stuttering, so now I leave it where it is and stop meddling.

As for individual core usage, I am on W11 with the new core scheduler, BUT, using DX11 not DX12 - due to the DX12 missing ground texture issue that seems prevalent at airports I use.  I realise DX12 spreads the load a lot more, and I have seen similar effects to you when trying it.
 

Edited February 14, 2023 by bobcat999

[GCBraun 2,416]

I am not aware of any serious game developer recommending turning HT off. Having multiple threads is a hardware capability, and it is up to modern software to make use of it. Registry hacks, core prioritization or BIOS measures such as turning HT off may work with legacy software like P3D but, thankfully, are a thing of the past now. 

With that being said, it is clear that CPUs like the 13900K are approaching their envelope limit. Therefore, turning off HT may help reducing heat generation, but should not, provided that a proper cooling solution is in place, have any significant effect in MSFS.

Edited February 14, 2023 by GCBraun

[RJC68 823]

I think the best thing is try the sim with HT on and off and see what results you get. For me I leave HT on and I turned virtualization off as it was causing some micro stuttering. I run my 12700K @5Ghz on all the P-Cores and I barely see temps above 55 degrees Celsius. My Noctua NH-D15 does an amazing job at keeping my 12700K cool. I also have a case with very good cooling which makes a massive difference in the thermal performance of my CPU & GPU.

[altenae 171]

Tested this for ever and ever. 

It's 2023.leave it on!!!!

Butter smooth here with HT on. 

Nonsense to turn it off