Picked up the steam gauge Bonanza, and figure it's time to learn IFR and start doing those globe trotter flights I've wanted to do for a while. 

Thing is, it's got a lot of options, and I figure I should probably start with a configuration and stick with it. My prior background is WWI/WWII combat sims, so while I've got pretty solid stick and rubber skill, and a decent grasp of pilotage, my experience with GPS and even radio nav is basically nill. 

From what I see, the radio options are com 1 can be either a GTN 750, a GNS 530 or a KX155 radio, while com 2 can have either a GNS 430 or another KX155

I'm curious about the pure radio nav system, but from what I'm reading, it seems to depend on VOR ground beacons being working, which seem to being going away, and not necessarily global. 

Is it possible to do navigation across the globe using just the dual KX155 radios? Or is that going to lock me out of some regions? 

And how do the different GPS units stack up to each other? 

Since the point of this is to see the world, I also don't want to set myself up in a system that incentivizes keeping my head inside the cockpit when I'm VFR. I worry that GPS will be so effective that I'd spend most of my time watching the instruments, even when it is possible to fly by eye. 

Thoughts? 

Harry Voyager

58 minutes ago, HarryVoyager said:

 

Is it possible to do navigation across the globe using just the dual KX155 radios? Or is that going to lock me out of some regions? 

 

In flightsim, as long as the VOR's are present, then yes you can.

I'd look at this cool VOR simulator page as a guide.  You'll need to understand how to change your obs based on how you want to navigate to the next VOR

http://www.luizmonteiro.com/learning_vor_sim.aspx

Here's an example flight.... you don't need airways between two VORs (but in this case there is an airway labeled V193-320).  Let's say you wanted to fly from PLN to TVC on this airway.  You need to first tune PLN 111.80 on NAV1 radio.  (You can tune TVC 114.6 on NAV2 if you like).... but I prefer to tune TVC/114.6 on NAV1 standby so I can easily swap between them when it's time.  Then you need to turn your OBS (the knob usually to the lower left of the HSI - the center compass looking instrument) so the very top of the yellow pointer line reads 219.  You can depart KPLN airport and turn to the SW... the goal here is to fly to the SW of the VOR and get established on this course/airway.  Depending on how you depart the airport you may need a right or left turn to fly that direction.  In this exact scenario the airport is already south of the VOR so it's not super hard to get established on the 219 radial.  I'd pickup a 180 heading and you'll intercept the 219R.  Radials always come from the center of the vor out.

You'll know you are close to the exact radial when the center yellow line starts to move to the middle of the HSI.  When it's perfectly centered with the rest of the yellow line (the one with the arrow pointing at 219) you'll need to turn that direction to stay centered and on course.  If there is wind you may need to turn slightly left or right (or a mixture of that) during your flight to keep "the needle centered."  I've made a few images here to help.  Also of note the HDG knob to the lower right of the HSI - this is good as a reference or more importantly in this aircraft, the reference the AP can use if it's engaged...  You can either hand fly the aircraft onto the course or use the AP's heading bug (the little orange square-ish thing that's on top of the S on my HSI here.  Once you see the yellow CDI needle move toward the center you can press NAV on your Autopilot (AP)....and the plane will attempt to turn and stay centered....  until.... you lose signal from PLN VOR.

Looking at my map here (called a low altitude enroute chart in the USA at least)....the total distance from PLN to TVC is 69 nautical miles or nm.  Under normal circumstances you'll need to swap to TVC vor on 114.6 half way between the two (or close to half hehe).  There are times the chart requires you to switch earlier but that's for you to learn down the road.  So at 34 DME from PLN you want to swap the NAV1 radio so the left side now says 114.60.  And suddenly you'll be slightly off course (your HSI needle probably won't be centered).  Since an HSI works a little differently than a VOR indicator (look on my bonanza pic and the green line points to the NAV2 which is similar to that vor simulator website's version), you'll need to find the reciprocal of the marked radial off of TVC vor.  On the chart it says 035.  180 degrees off of that is 215.  This is your new OBS.  Turn the OBS knob so that the Yellow line with the arrow points to 215.  Again you need to center the CDI needle (the middle part that moves left and right of center)....so it may require a slight turn maybe to the left.  Sometimes when I'm switching between two VORs I enable HDG mode on the AP but only after I turn the HDG knob (lower right of the HSI) to very top center (aka the same heading I'm on)....that way when the NAV1 radio is changed the plane won't turn on its own... especially important if you're working with ATC and you suddenly change course they will wonder what is happening!

Now that you are navigating to TVC VOR, note that your DME will decrease.  As you fly over a VOR you might lose signal and your needle may swing left and right.  This is normal and is called the cone of confusion.  I'm not a rocket surgeon but essentially what this means is that your aircraft cannot read exactly where you are due the the fact that you are almost or directly over the VOR ground station.  It won't last long and eventually the CDI needle will settle down.  If you continue past TVC you'll probably be on the 219 radial outbound (and your to/from white flag will be pointing away) but if you wanted to turn and follow another radial (say to the east)....you would turn the OBS knob to 090 or in the case E on the gauge.

Hopefully some of that was helpful.  Let me know if you have any questions.

vor by Ryan Butterworth, on Flickr

vorguide by Ryan Butterworth, on Flickr

Edited March 15, 20233 yr by ryanbatc

1 hour ago, HarryVoyager said:

Since the point of this is to see the world, I also don't want to set myself up in a system that incentivizes keeping my head inside the cockpit when I'm VFR. I worry that GPS will be so effective that I'd spend most of my time watching the instruments, even when it is possible to fly by eye. 

Thoughts? 

I could see head-down in VFR being a problem with all of the fancy avionics these days.  Even real-world pilots can be tempted to not look outside enough, and if they don't have a TCAS-equipped aircraft, it could be a little dicey.  You can control that, by mostly looking outside in VFR.  You can still use your instruments like a GPS with the occasional scan.

I flew around the world in P3D using a Piper Cherokee with "just" a GNS430 and only heading hold and altitude hold.  In FS2002 or 2004 I flew across the Atlantic using only dead reckoning, and I did complete the flight but was about 200 miles away from where I wanted to be (Scotland vs. Ireland).

Also -- the world is a big place -- you can still just use VOR/NDB but there will be long stretches of no radio navaids...there you will have to rely on your charts and keeping track of your outbound heading (from a last known-good radio navaid) to intercept a new radial (with a VOR) or NDB.  Essentially dead reckoning to your next radio navaid.

I mean if it was me I'd just grab the TDS GTNxi and follow the magenta line lol!

But like Mace says sometimes without GPS you'll just want to use your eyes to navigate.... all part of the fun.

1 hour ago, Mace said:

I could see head-down in VFR being a problem with all of the fancy avionics these days.  Even real-world pilots can be tempted to not look outside enough, and if they don't have a TCAS-equipped aircraft, it could be a little dicey.  You can control that, by mostly looking outside in VFR.  You can still use your instruments like a GPS with the occasional scan.

[...]

It really is. I did a number of mission in Flying Circus by pilotage and dead reckoning, with no minimap, and I do remember what the world looked like from all of them, but for the flight around Tasmania I did in the Flying Iron F6F with a GPS unit, I remember the magenta line, not the flight. 

I think given all of that, I'll start with the dual radio setup, and figure out how to handle limitations when I need to. I gather the Bonanza is good at grass field lands anyways. 

Get the https://pms50.com/msfs/downloads/gtn750-basic/     , Best and easiest way to learn to fly IFR, and it's free.  

FWIW, VOR radials point outwards! Only outwards.

For example, if you're on the 045° radial: no matter in whatever direction you re flying, you are on that 045° radial. Conversely, if you are flying on a heading of 045° but are south west of the VOR, you are not on the 045° radial. The OBS and that to/from arrow are important.

I still think one of the coolest radio nav things is cross-checking your position using two VOR's.  I could enjoy simple pleasures though.  

If you want a challenge - one that may not be around for too much longer - try NDB navigation.  Because there are no radials there's a trick in getting to grips with wind drift, and learning how to tell the distance to the beacon using a tangential course and timing.  If you can manage that then there are the NDB approaches (both off- and on-field).  After that VORs will seem a doddle!

There used to be an excellent (pre-GPS) IFR tutorial by Charles Wood, but it seems to have disappeared from the net.

2 hours ago, Mace said:

I still think one of the coolest radio nav things is cross-checking your position using two VOR's.  I could enjoy simple pleasures though.  

VORs in many of the countries, are few and far between, and are gradually being phased out. NDBs are pretty much gone. GPS is what is happening today. 

34 minutes ago, Bobsk8 said:

VORs in many of the countries, are few and far between, and are gradually being phased out. NDBs are pretty much gone. GPS is what is happening today. 

Heh.  My comment was to VOR cross-checking, which I have always enjoyed where available.

My own CGI VOR seems to be downgraded now -- to a Localizer with DME.

18 hours ago, HarryVoyager said:

Since the point of this is to see the world, I also don't want to set myself up in a system that incentivizes keeping my head inside the cockpit when I'm VFR

It sounds like you'd benefit from something that will do most of the nav work itself. I still enjoy using VORs and charts, but if I want to be able to focus on scenery flying planned VFR legs a good GPS unit is the way to go. I think someone already mentioned the PMS50 site. They offer two versions of the GTN750, one free, one paid. The free version is very nice but I'm using the paid version and it has worked out great for me. Happy exploring!

14 hours ago, JabbleWok said:

There used to be an excellent (pre-GPS) IFR tutorial by Charles Wood, but it seems to have disappeared from the net.

Here you go: https://web.archive.org/web/20050307010252/http://www.navfltsm.addr.com/index.htm

That Wayback Machine is one of the greatest sites on the internet. 

1 hour ago, eslader said:

Here you go: https://web.archive.org/web/20050307010252/http://www.navfltsm.addr.com/index.htm

That Wayback Machine is one of the greatest sites on the internet. 

Excellent find, thanks!

On 3/15/2023 at 5:31 PM, HarryVoyager said:

and figure it's time to learn IFR

https://www.faa.gov/sites/faa.gov/files/regulations_policies/handbooks_manuals/aviation/FAA-H-8083-15B.pdf

https://www.faa.gov/regulations_policies/handbooks_manuals/aviation/instrument_procedures_handbook

https://www.faa.gov/regulations_policies/handbooks_manuals/aviation

 

 

Edited March 16, 20233 yr by turbomax