Just Flight Pipers updates

[jarmstro 2,406]

2 hours ago, The Moose said:

Here what a real Arrow III owner had to say about the new patch when he flew the same flight he'd flown in real life earlier in the day.

"I replicated the same flight I did today in the Arrow for a lunch run and I am impressed! Couple of things - The new version trims out much much better than the previous one. The real Arrow, once properly trimmed for each phase of flight, can be flown pretty much with your index finger. The updated JF Arrow behaves like this! Well done! The pitch excursions I used to experience with the JF Arrow do not happen anymore. The airplane ‘feels’ correct when you pitch up/down with normal elevator movements… press the yoke forward gently, the airplane pitches down gently - not like a rollercoaster in the previous version. Likewise for back pressure. Landing is no longer a wild ride of an adventure - the real Arrow is very docile and stable on approach - again, trim works almost exactly as it does in the real airplane. If you trim it properly on approach and are at the correct airspeed - this thing almost lands itself. Just like the real one. For me, ground handling is very very much improved. I can taxi the JF Arrow at 1000 RPM without having to constantly weave back and forth to keep it on the taxilne - again, just like the real one.

Takeoffs - If you trim properly for takeoff, the JF arrow lifts off the runway with the slightest bit of back pressure at the correct airspeed - which is NOT 80 knots. If you are rotating the Arrow at 80 knots, you don’t have your takeoff trim set properly. My guess is way too much nose-down trim. In mine, with the standard load of full fuel (mine only holds 48 gals) and two people in the left/right front seat and minimal baggage… my trim at takeoff is set just aft of N. I loaded up the JF Arrow in a similar configuration, set the trim just aft of N and I only had to apply the slightest of backpressure on the yoke to get it to rotate around 60-65 knots. (Mine is in MPH lol and likes to lift around 65-70 MPH)

Climb - to those who are experiencing anemic climb rates - are you directly pitching for Vy after rotation? If so - don’t do that. Let the airplane lift off, then let the airspeed build up and then start your pitch for Vy… If you try to over-rotate or immediately pitch up after liftoff, your airspeed won’t be where it needs to be. This is actually something new Arrow pilots do and it’s dangerous. Once you have accelerated to 80 knots or so, you can start your climb and retract the gear. Then pitch for (ok mine is in MPH and I pitch for 100 mph, so probably 90 knots) in the initial climb… you should get somewhere near 900 fpm. It’s not a turboprop - you aren’t going to climb like a rocket. Trust me - on a hot day, I get irritated because the real one won’t climb over 700 fpm.  But that’s realistic. Keep the MP in and pull the prop back to 2500 (don’t listen to the people that tell you not to run these oversquare… seriously, don’t get me started.)…

Descent - I was really impressed at how the aircraft descends. Pull MP to 20" and let it descend at 500fpm. The JF Arrow is very realistic here.

Ok, I typed more than I thought I was going to, but I have to say I am very very impressed. Having just flown the real one today for 2.5 hours, recreating the same outbound leg in the JF Arrow was pretty amazing. I actually landed the JF arrow better than the real one (I had a plunker and have many excuses for it if you want to hear them)…"

Yes but my daughter in law, who has a P28, tells me that she never ever has to set rudder trim for take off. In fact she says she rarely needs to use the rudder at all. And when she's taken me up I've never experienced the plane lurching suddenly to the side on take off thank God?

Edited April 6, 2023 by jarmstro

[Danno 198]

Last update: I think I resolved most of my issues thanks to a hint from Bob. I did a full uninstall of the Turbo Arrow, reboot the PC (the installer suggests this) and resinstalled the updated version (v 0.5.6.).  Flies noticeably better now but I still think the default elevator limits are too shallow. So I edited the flight model to the following...

elevator_up_limit       =20
elevator_down_limit     =15

Finally, I can control the Arrow's landing near its touchdown speed of 75 kts without it slamming into the asphalt. Take-offs and landings do require correct trim or it will be a disaster. As I mentioned earlier, it's unforgiving in that manner. And I still think it's too jittery in light winds. It's been 30 years since I flew a Cherokee but I don't ever recall it feeling like a plastic bag in the wind. 

 

 

 

[Paul K 1,411]

On 4/4/2023 at 4:21 PM, Bobsk8 said:

Well it acts like there is a control lock for elevator and aileron, but there is none. I restarted PC, same thing. Going to try and reinstall this pile of word not allowed, one more time, and then I am done with it.

I suddenly remembered something similar happening to me, way back. If I recall correctly, it was to do with the State Saving function on the tablet - if I had finished the flight with the AP on, the next flight started with me parked, but unable to move the control surfaces. Have you tried disabling State Saving, and/or selecting Cold & Dark ? I know that sorted it out for me, if you haven't tried it.

[Bobsk8 12,943]

3 hours ago, Paul K said:

I suddenly remembered something similar happening to me, way back. If I recall correctly, it was to do with the State Saving function on the tablet - if I had finished the flight with the AP on, the next flight started with me parked, but unable to move the control surfaces. Have you tried disabling State Saving, and/or selecting Cold & Dark ? I know that sorted it out for me, if you haven't tried it.

You are a Genius!!!!   That was it... Went to cold and dark, and now everything works. !!!!!😀

BTW, in order for this to not happen again, you have to shut the aircraft down, select saving state, and exit out of MSFS, otherwise it will boot up stuck in AP mode again. That is apparently a   bug in their program. The other bug is you still can't turn off altitude hold, without switching off  the AP. Looks like they spend about 15 minutes beta testing this update. 

Edited April 7, 2023 by Bobsk8

[Bobsk8 12,943]

I just took it on a 60 mile flight after getting it running. Sorry I wasted my time, it is beyond bad...Towing to the junkyard when I land. 😉

[Bobsk8 12,943]

9 hours ago, Danno said:

Last update: I think I resolved most of my issues thanks to a hint from Bob. I did a full uninstall of the Turbo Arrow, reboot the PC (the installer suggests this) and resinstalled the updated version (v 0.5.6.).  Flies noticeably better now but I still think the default elevator limits are too shallow. So I edited the flight model to the following...

elevator_up_limit       =20
elevator_down_limit     =15

Finally, I can control the Arrow's landing near its touchdown speed of 75 kts without it slamming into the asphalt. Take-offs and landings do require correct trim or it will be a disaster. As I mentioned earlier, it's unforgiving in that manner. And I still think it's too jittery in light winds. It's been 30 years since I flew a Cherokee but I don't ever recall it feeling like a plastic bag in the wind. 

 

 

 

People put Carenado down, but all the Carenado planes I have purchased in MSFS, fly a thousand percent better than this Arrow3.  

[JaseMelbo 395]

Can't say I'm experiencing any issues after the latest updated.

I fly the Arrow and Turbo Arrow in Sim and really enjoy them.

Great update, thanks JF!

Jase

[Danno 198]

8 hours ago, Bobsk8 said:

People put Carenado down, but all the Carenado planes I have purchased in MSFS, fly a thousand percent better than this Arrow3.  

I agree the JF Arrow has an uneasy feeling in the air.  Very noticeable when I fly the SWS Kodiak or Black Square product immediately after the Arrow. 

[Glenn Fitzpatrick 3,799]

You have always had to turn off the AP  as part of your shutting down with JF PA28 or weird things happen next flight.  I do not think that has changed.

[Bobsk8 12,943]

1 hour ago, Glenn Fitzpatrick said:

You have always had to turn off the AP  as part of your shutting down with JF PA28 or weird things happen next flight.  I do not think that has changed.

When you completely uninstall an aircraft.in windows, and later reinstall it , how does it know that you didn't shut down the autopilot?

[Bobsk8 12,943]

 

[SuperKaro2014 281]

Installed the updated Arrow 3 today and spent a couple of hours doing circuits at EKSB, a short return hop EKSB to EKST, and finally 5S6 to 6S2. All flights were with Live Weather.

What I noted:

* She's still lovely ❤️ For me everything works as advertised and the Arrow 3 is (still) a real joy to fly.

* I had to reduce the sensitivity of my rudder input as it got a bit squirrely on take off.

* Trimming for level flight using both elevator and rudder trim was easier than I remember from earlier versions. I have an X52 Pro HOTAS and use one of the little wheels on the base of the throttle for pitch trim and one of the hat switches on the joystick for rudder.

* Tested the new 'VS mode' which worked fine and as described in the manual. I had none of the issues described by other posters.

* Flight model is great and the plane gets tossed around a lot less than in the previous version. Yes, there is still turbulence and it can get bumpy on approach, but that goes for the WBSim/JPL C152 as well for example... another favourite GA of mine.

* The EFB updates are pretty neat although I imagine I won't be using them much. The map is very slow to update as reported by others.

The Arrow 3 still comes highly recommended from this casual simmer 🙂

 

[Bobsk8 12,943]

12 hours ago, Danno said:

I agree the JF Arrow has an uneasy feeling in the air.  Very noticeable when I fly the SWS Kodiak or Black Square product immediately after the Arrow. 

After reading your post, I got  the Kodiak out of the hangar and flew it all day  today , in Alaska, and Two flights in Norway, each flight about 150 miles. What a pleasure flying Kodiak, after flying that word not allowed Arrow 3...😉

[ark 1,296]

12 hours ago, Bobsk8 said:

When you completely uninstall an aircraft.in windows, and later reinstall it , how does it know that you didn't shut down the autopilot?

As a general comment, after uninstalling an aircraft it is good practice to take a look at where it was installed and make sure all files were in fact removed. If you find any files survived the uninstall, delete them since there is a chance a surviving file could cause a problem after the reinstall. Some uninstallers will not remove a file that has been modified.

In the case of the JF Arrow, which I don't have, I wonder if the saved state file gets uninstalled when you run the uninstaller? Just a thought.

Al

Edited April 8, 2023 by ark

[Glenn Fitzpatrick 3,799]

23 hours ago, Bobsk8 said:

People put Carenado down, but all the Carenado planes I have purchased in MSFS, fly a thousand percent better than this Arrow3.  

The main criticism of Carenado has been they have had a tendency to have a "generic" easy to fly FM which was very similar across models and did not really  implement any of the known vices of the real aircraft,

Aside from being generic, they had few other faults, tail dragger ground handling being the only big complaint.

Hence you got comments in reviews along the lines of "it flies like a Carenado" meaning it matches the book numbers but otherwise flies like all the other Carenados. Carenado had the reputation for nice looking aircraft that had no vices and were easy to fly for beginners, all at a good price.  BUT a bit generic in the FM department.  (an example of a non-generic FM is the Wilga, it is very individual in the way it flies and handles)

This generic FM to some extent has HELPED Carenado,  as an awful lot of complaints about other addons stem from people expecting everything to fly like a training aircraft, vis-à-vis a faster/slower 152/172,  and immediately blame the aircraft if they cannot just jump in and fly. With Carenado you pretty much could just jump in and fly.

More recent Carenado aircraft are substantially better in this, regard, they do feel different, and recent updates to things like the c195 have also made improvements in the "individual feel" area for older aircaft as well.  If that trend continues you can expect the overall attitude to Carenado as being generic pretty beginners aircraft to start to change.