10 hours ago, garydpoole said:

Thanks for the info.

Just to clarify the situation, if I set refresh to 24Hz, with AMPS enable, it works as the option is enabled in the TV menu and the sim is definitely responding to it (very smooth). However, if I then set the refresh to 29Hz, the TV option is not only greyed out, but AMPS has definitely stopped working in the sim.

I can set 25Hz refresh and it still works in the sim, but any higher then it does not.

Just out of interest, does the effect of AMPS cause the frame rates to be displayed at the new rate, or will they remain at the rate before being processed by the TV - at 24Hz, my frame rate still shows 24fps both in dev mode and RTSS ?

There is no way to display the FPS rate that is actually on the screen whether it be RTSS or the sim frame counter because the hardware that interpolates the extra frames is built into the TV not the GPU. I'm not sure why it wont work at 29hz or 30hz for you. On my TV I can set the refresh rate to any supported refresh rate up to 50hz with the custom AMPS setting available. That's 23,24,25,29,30 or 50hz

So seeing if I could reproduce your problem I did find that I could not use the AMPS setting (they where greyed out) at resolution over the 24hz ball park. I am using 3840x2160 which is the native resolution of the TV. Are you using some other resolution? If so I'd say change that the native resolution of the TV reported by NCP and try again. Start at 60hz and then change to 23hz and then to 29 or 30hz. There can be chance that the AMPS setting wont become available with the change from 60hz to 30hz. Than why I'm suggesting you go to 23hz first. Hopefully you can get it to work.

Anyway, having said that I do a lot of my flying at 23hz which you've seen. Or in you case at 25hz. It looks very smooth because what you are seeing on screen is 50fps. So you can imagine that if you tune your system for say 30fps and then limit that 25fps using VSYNC and a 25hz refresh rate your getting a 50fps experience. That's like doubling the power of your system for free.

The problems you will encounter are in panning. You can overwhelm the Judder Reduction is the image on the screen changes to fast. If you use TrackIR you'll probably need to adjust speed speed in your profile. If you use a the mouse of the POV switch on joy stick you should slow the panning speed down a good bit. Also on airliners I've found the cabin windows can be a challenge for frame interpolation on exterior aircraft view panning where it seems to try to blend them together. The fix again is to slow down the panning speed and zoom in the view to the aircraft a close as you can live with and this anomaly goes away. It takes a little tweaking but if you get it working right its great. Check out this 24fps video at 23hz with the Judder Reduction on 10 and it will give you an idea of the end result you'll get in the sim looks like. Let me know if you don't agree that it look more like 50fps. with the judder reduction on at 23hz its 46fps which of course be impossible to get at the setting the video is made at. Hopefully you can get it to kick at 29/30hz too although I do all my airline flying at 23hz. I only do GA stuff at 29hz.

Let me know if I can give you any further help.

 

 

Edited April 24, 20233 yr by FBW737

4 hours ago, FBW737 said:

So seeing if I could reproduce your problem I did find that I could not use the AMPS setting (they where greyed out) at resolution over the 24hz ball park. 

Sorry, but what did you change on your system to be able to reproduce my problem as I don't understand what you mean "at resolution over the 24hz ball park" ?

My resolution is definitely set to 3840x2160 Native in NCP.

I'm now just wondwering if this ability is simply not available on my Samsung and that AMPS will only work at 24Hz and 25Hz ?

4 hours ago, FBW737 said:

 

 

I also note that it this video, the TV refresh rate is only set to 24Hz, so perhaps it was also limited to this on their TV as well ? Unfortnuately, I'm writing this from work so I don't have the model number of my Samsung to hand.

Once agaiin, thanks for the assistance,.

2 hours ago, garydpoole said:

Sorry, but what did you change on your system to be able to reproduce my problem as I don't understand what you mean "at resolution over the 24hz ball park" ?

So by 24hz ball park I mean 23, 24 or 25hz. I tried to reproduce your problem of not being able to enable the AMPS setting at 30hz. If I chanced the resolution to a none native resolution I could see that the amps settings in some cases where greyed out at 30hz so I though perhaps that's the issue.

The video is from my system. I could just as easily do 30hz. I wanted to demo 24hz.

I started doing this about 3 years ago and do recall having to persuade the AMPS setting to work at higher refresh rates.

I think what you need to do is Change your refresh rate from 60hz to 23hz. Then go into the TV setting and change judder reduction setting to 10. Once you do that exit the TV setting menu and change the refresh rate in NCP to 29hz. Once you do that go back into the TV setting menu and see if the AMPS setting are still set to custom.

You should probably do all that while the Sim is running with the frame counter displayed because you will definitely be able to see the difference between the 30fps if the amps setting doesn't take at 30hz and the 60fps if it does.

I just set this up on a friends New Samsung 4KTV a couple of weeks ago at 30hz so I know it works on other TVs and not just mine.

One other possibility. Are you using DisplayPort cable or HDMI cable?

4 hours ago, FBW737 said:

I think what you need to do is Change your refresh rate from 60hz to 23hz. Then go into the TV setting and change judder reduction setting to 10. Once you do that exit the TV setting menu and change the refresh rate in NCP to 29hz. Once you do that go back into the TV setting menu and see if the AMPS setting are still set to custom.

I've tried this to the letter, but unfortunately, my TV just won't enable AMPS at any refresh rate above 25Hz.

I've even tried adjusting the refresh rate with the TV menu screen still showing and with AMPS enabled at 23Hz. It's a bit awkward to see NCP below it, but I can move NCP around so that I can set the refesh rate to 29Hz, then as soon as I click "Apply", the TV momentarilly flickers, then comes back with the TV menu screen now showing AMPS greyed out. If I then select "No" before the refresh rate adjustment screen timer times out, the TV flickers again, and this time, the TV menu screen is now showing AMPS enabled again, but of course, the TV is back to the original 23Hz.

So sadly, I have to conclude that my TV cannot have AMPS enabled above 25Hz. 

Btw, it's a Samsung UE50RU7020.

Many thanks for your assistance.

 

4 hours ago, garydpoole said:

I've tried this to the letter, but unfortunately, my TV just won't enable AMPS at any refresh rate above 25Hz.

I've even tried adjusting the refresh rate with the TV menu screen still showing and with AMPS enabled at 23Hz. It's a bit awkward to see NCP below it, but I can move NCP around so that I can set the refesh rate to 29Hz, then as soon as I click "Apply", the TV momentarilly flickers, then comes back with the TV menu screen now showing AMPS greyed out. If I then select "No" before the refresh rate adjustment screen timer times out, the TV flickers again, and this time, the TV menu screen is now showing AMPS enabled again, but of course, the TV is back to the original 23Hz.

So sadly, I have to conclude that my TV cannot have AMPS enabled above 25Hz. 

Btw, it's a Samsung UE50RU7020.

Many thanks for your assistance.

 

Sorry it didn't work out for you. I'm kinda surprised since even on the Samsung website it suggests that AMPS is meant for 30fps sports content to smooth out the fast action on screen. It even suggests that its not recommended for 24hz content like movies because it causes soap opera effect. Bear in mind that using it at 25hz gives you 50fps on screen. Tuning your system for a minimum fps of 25+ will then always yield a very smooth 50fps on screen. I'm my opinion that's a lot better than tuning your system for 30+ fps for satisfactory 30fps on screen with lower setting. As I said earlier I do nearly all of my airliner flying at 23hz for 4fps on screen and have the sim setting maxed out with tons of traffic thanks to FSLTL. I use TrackIR5 with a profile I've made for very smooth realistic panning. Bearing in mind that you are getting it to work with 25hz for 50fps on screen I'd encourage you continue to experiment with it since you probably can perceive that 50fps you see a vastly superior to the 25fps you perceive when AMPS is turned out or for that matter vastly superior 30fps you perceive with you refresh rate at 30hz. I'd also be willing to beat that if you could get amps to work at 30hz that difference between the theoretical 60fps you'd get on screen and 50fps you can get on screen would be virtually indistinguishable. The bottom line is that unless you have a 4000 series GPU, I'd be willing to beat the 50fps your getting at 25hz with AMPS and Vsync on in the sim is by far the best performance solution you'll get. Its that same as setting your sim up for 25fps and getting 50fps instead. I'd experiment with it for a while if I where you. I beat you'll have a hard time going back to a lower setting and a lower FPS! 😁

21 hours ago, FBW737 said:

Sorry it didn't work out for you. 

Finally managed to get it working !

Eventually found a discussion about the problem on a Samsung forum where a guy posted this fix on Youtube:

Followed it to the letter and I now have AMPS all the way up to 60Hz refresh rate. So I've left it at this and set the Vsync at 1/2 monitor refresh rate within the sim. Initally feels very smooth, but haven't had time to give it a real try yet.

Thanks for sticking with me and for all of your input !

 

 

 

Edited April 25, 20233 yr by garydpoole

5 hours ago, garydpoole said:

Finally managed to get it working !

Eventually found a discussion about the problem on a Samsung forum where a guy posted this fix on Youtube:

Followed it to the letter and I now have AMPS all the way up to 60Hz refresh rate. So I've left it at this and set the Vsync at 1/2 monitor refresh rate within the sim. Initally feels very smooth, but haven't had time to give it a real try yet.

Thanks for sticking with me and for all of your input !

I'm a bit puzzled as to why you'd set it to 60hz and Vsync to 1/2 monitor refresh rate. I'd set the refresh rate to 29hz vsync in the sim on for 60fps on screen. Glad to here you got it working I'm sure with some experimentation you'll get he best results for you. Welcome to Frame Generation without a 4000 series Nvidia GPU! 🤣

11 hours ago, FBW737 said:

I'm a bit puzzled as to why you'd set it to 60hz and Vsync to 1/2 monitor refresh rate. I'd set the refresh rate to 29hz vsync in the sim on for 60fps on screen. 

Good question ! My thinking here is to keep a high refresh rate to minimise latency, both in and out of the sim. Halving this in the sim keeps the fps at 30, but then uses AMPS to interpolate this up to 60. I've tried refresh 30Hz with Vsync at 100% monitor refresh rate and tbh, I can't see (or feel) any difference in the sim.

Notwithstanding, this is game changing 👍 Just tried a few approaches into IniBuilds Heathrow using FsiPanel with pretty heavy AI and the landings and taxis were buttery smooth 😃

The problem that I now have is that I've got to replace this 4K TV with another one as this one was originally hanging on the wall in another room in the house actually being used as a TV 😄

10 hours ago, garydpoole said:

Good question ! My thinking here is to keep a high refresh rate to minimise latency, both in and out of the sim. Halving this in the sim keeps the fps at 30, but then uses AMPS to interpolate this up to 60. I've tried refresh 30Hz with Vsync at 100% monitor refresh rate and tbh, I can't see (or feel) any difference in the sim.

Notwithstanding, this is game changing 👍 Just tried a few approaches into IniBuilds Heathrow using FsiPanel with pretty heavy AI and the landings and taxis were buttery smooth 😃

The problem that I now have is that I've got to replace this 4K TV with another one as this one was originally hanging on the wall in another room in the house actually being used as a TV 😄

Well, I'll confirm that your 1/2 refresh rate approach yields the same result as my approach. good find! 60fps for the price of 30. Welcome to the frame generation without a 4000 series Nvidia GPU club😆

On 4/26/2023 at 9:15 AM, garydpoole said:

Good question ! My thinking here is to keep a high refresh rate to minimise latency, both in and out of the sim. Halving this in the sim keeps the fps at 30, but then uses AMPS to interpolate this up to 60. I've tried refresh 30Hz with Vsync at 100% monitor refresh rate and tbh, I can't see (or feel) any difference in the sim.

Notwithstanding, this is game changing 👍 Just tried a few approaches into IniBuilds Heathrow using FsiPanel with pretty heavy AI and the landings and taxis were buttery smooth 😃

The problem that I now have is that I've got to replace this 4K TV with another one as this one was originally hanging on the wall in another room in the house actually being used as a TV 😄

So you definitely brought something new to the table here for me. I apprehensively followed the instructions in that video you posted above and I'll second that it works.

and I'll add that my initial impression is the approach better than mine.

I can now for the first time get AMPS to work at 60hz. Previously, I had it working up to 50hz. I've taken flight at both 60hz and 50hz at half refresh rate so for the 30fps or 25fps the TV gets from the GPU I get a perfectly smooth 60 or 50fps on screen respectively. I'll really have to find the opportunity to see frame generation with a 4000 series GPU. I'd be very surprised if it was any better than the Frame Generation we are getting here from out TV's.

On 4/16/2023 at 10:49 AM, captain420 said:

Why 29Hz, my Tv is 4k 60Hz

Try the approach outlined by garydpoole above if you must use 60hz. It works!

Okay that works. But for some reason it isn't as sharp as before. The text and icons on the desktop don't look as crisp and the colors look a bit strange. I will play with it some more and see. 

What is AMPS?

Okay set autojudder to 10, LED motion to off, and I do see a noticeable increase in smoothness. Also I feel that there's somewhat of an input lag when panning or moving my mouse. I have set VSYNC ON and 1/2 refresh rate in the sim and I'm running my TV at native 4K at 60Hz.

For those of you who are using an NVIDIA CARD, here is a little tweak. I have tried it for P3D and it is a definite visual improvement...

Sherm

https://www.howtogeek.com/886754/what-is-nvidia-image-scaling-and-how-do-you-use-it/?utm_medium=newsletter&utm_source=HTG-NL-DN&utm_campaign=28-apr-2023