Hi,

So I've purchased the early access but only started using it recently (starting v0.9.11).

I've done a couple of flights with it and it gets the job done getting you from A to B with no issues.

It's clear it's missing key features like VNAV. FMC more advanced functions and so on... but my main issue is the flight dynamics which I'm not sure are getting attention - 

1. Aircraft pitches up by itself during takeoff roll before reaching V1
2. Unrealistic pitch with FLCH set to 250 knots resulting in 3000-4000 feet per minute climb rate
3. Aircraft pitch changes too quickly/abruptly following VS changes on autopilot
4. Thrust lever movement is jerky trying to cope with speed changes especially around pitch changes
5. LNAV - encounterd a single case where the aircraft started banking to no relevant direction

I'm no E-jets pilot and have experience only with the Feelthere e-jets in P3D but wanted to get some feedback on the above...? 

 

Thanks!

Shom

1 hour ago, Shomron said:

Hi,

So I've purchased the early access but only started using it recently (starting v0.9.11).

I've done a couple of flights with it and it gets the job done getting you from A to B with no issues.

It's clear it's missing key features like VNAV. FMC more advanced functions and so on... but my main issue is the flight dynamics which I'm not sure are getting attention - 

1. Aircraft pitches up by itself during takeoff roll before reaching V1
2. Unrealistic pitch with FLCH set to 250 knots resulting in 3000-4000 feet per minute climb rate
3. Aircraft pitch changes too quickly/abruptly following VS changes on autopilot
4. Thrust lever movement is jerky trying to cope with speed changes especially around pitch changes
5. LNAV - encounterd a single case where the aircraft started banking to no relevant direction

I'm no E-jets pilot and have experience only with the Feelthere e-jets in P3D but wanted to get some feedback on the above...? 

 

Thanks!

Shom

No good moaning here. Post your findings on their Discord. (I've not noticed the jerky throttle myself but everything else; yup.)

1 hour ago, Shomron said:

Hi,

So I've purchased the early access but only started using it recently (starting v0.9.11).

I've done a couple of flights with it and it gets the job done getting you from A to B with no issues.

It's clear it's missing key features like VNAV. FMC more advanced functions and so on... but my main issue is the flight dynamics which I'm not sure are getting attention - 

1. Aircraft pitches up by itself during takeoff roll before reaching V1
2. Unrealistic pitch with FLCH set to 250 knots resulting in 3000-4000 feet per minute climb rate
3. Aircraft pitch changes too quickly/abruptly following VS changes on autopilot
4. Thrust lever movement is jerky trying to cope with speed changes especially around pitch changes
5. LNAV - encounterd a single case where the aircraft started banking to no relevant direction

I'm no E-jets pilot and have experience only with the Feelthere e-jets in P3D but wanted to get some feedback on the above...? 

 

Thanks!

Shom

AP is MSFS default as is LNAV. This explains most of your issues.

Thanks for posting about the current status of the addon.  I’ll jump in eventually so I appreciate knowing where it is

Edited June 6, 20232 yr by regis9

1. Aircraft pitches up by itself during takeoff roll before reaching V1

This has been the case since day 1.  Make sure you aren't setting TO trim to 10.0.    Something like 3-4 is real world according to that Embraer pilot 737NGdriver had for the E175 review and make sure your using real world wieights in the sim and in the FMC.  That real world pilot explained why the FMC says 10.0 but like the TO/LAND fuel is not actually talking about total fuel. The 10.0 in the FMC is not about what to set the trim to.  My nose does start lifting but that's when I'm already at V1 and Rotate.  

2. Unrealistic pitch with FLCH set to 250 knots resulting in 3000-4000 feet per minute climb rate

I'm not sure if this is unrealistic or not, maybe slightly depending on weight and altitude.  Today, we rocketed out of Houston at an uncomfortable pitch angle.  I guess we had to get away from the parallel take off on the the 15s?  Looking at The flightaware it looks like we were 2,500-3,000 FPM to 5000 feet then 2900-3300 FPM from 6-10k at 230 kts and then we we were over 10k we were doing about 2,000 FPM at 290kts (360kts GS) until FL200 then it was only about 1,200-1,000 FPM. And I'm not sure why but from Houston to San Antonio we shot up to 28,000 ft then back down. Seemed wierd to go that high on a 34 minute flight

3. Aircraft pitch changes too quickly/abruptly following VS changes on autopilot.

This is really annoying.  They know about it.

4.Thrust lever movement is jerky trying to cope with speed changes especially around pitch changes

Haven't really noticed this.  I know in the real airplane as passenger I'm always surprised by how much the throttle goes up and down on final approach.  Sometimes I think we are going around, just to have the throttle cut back to nothing a few moments later and then back at buzzsaw then down to nothing again. Then almost back to Buzzsaw just before landing. I've noticed this on CRJs too.  They both have CF34s so maybe its just the way the engine works.  

5. LNAV - encounterd a single case where the aircraft started banking to no relevant direction

Yeah, I was flying from SFO to BMWorld Monterey CA and just before the SNS (Salinas) VOR the jet just started turning north for no reason and went to a heading of 030 from 140. It's been discussed on the discord for FSS.  The answer is always that they are woking on a custom VNAV system.

There are still too many issues to discuss, just look at their Discord "Known Issues" section. For me the FMS is the biggest problem.  Like how it rarely transitions smoothly from FMS to V/L correctly or it gets confused and tunes the opposite end of the runway.  Can't hold, still can't direct to.  Still has limitations on what you can enter for waypoints inside a STAR or SID. RNAVs not really possible unless you V/S the whole time and watch your charts carefully.  The exterior lighting is now better in 0.9.12 exp. Wing flex isn't A330esque anymore.  We got Navigraph charts now, so that's something.

 

Thanks for the heads up, not gonna buy this one yet.

6 hours ago, aniiran said:

1. Aircraft pitches up by itself during takeoff roll before reaching V1

This has been the case since day 1.  Make sure you aren't setting TO trim to 10.0.    Something like 3-4 is real world according to that Embraer pilot 737NGdriver had for the E175 review and make sure your using real world wieights in the sim and in the FMC.  That real world pilot explained why the FMC says 10.0 but like the TO/LAND fuel is not actually talking about total fuel. The 10.0 in the FMC is not about what to set the trim to.  My nose does start lifting but that's when I'm already at V1 and Rotate.  

2. Unrealistic pitch with FLCH set to 250 knots resulting in 3000-4000 feet per minute climb rate

I'm not sure if this is unrealistic or not, maybe slightly depending on weight and altitude.  Today, we rocketed out of Houston at an uncomfortable pitch angle.  I guess we had to get away from the parallel take off on the the 15s?  Looking at The flightaware it looks like we were 2,500-3,000 FPM to 5000 feet then 2900-3300 FPM from 6-10k at 230 kts and then we we were over 10k we were doing about 2,000 FPM at 290kts (360kts GS) until FL200 then it was only about 1,200-1,000 FPM. And I'm not sure why but from Houston to San Antonio we shot up to 28,000 ft then back down. Seemed wierd to go that high on a 34 minute flight

3. Aircraft pitch changes too quickly/abruptly following VS changes on autopilot.

This is really annoying.  They know about it.

4.Thrust lever movement is jerky trying to cope with speed changes especially around pitch changes

Haven't really noticed this.  I know in the real airplane as passenger I'm always surprised by how much the throttle goes up and down on final approach.  Sometimes I think we are going around, just to have the throttle cut back to nothing a few moments later and then back at buzzsaw then down to nothing again. Then almost back to Buzzsaw just before landing. I've noticed this on CRJs too.  They both have CF34s so maybe its just the way the engine works.  

5. LNAV - encounterd a single case where the aircraft started banking to no relevant direction

Yeah, I was flying from SFO to BMWorld Monterey CA and just before the SNS (Salinas) VOR the jet just started turning north for no reason and went to a heading of 030 from 140. It's been discussed on the discord for FSS.  The answer is always that they are woking on a custom VNAV system.

There are still too many issues to discuss, just look at their Discord "Known Issues" section. For me the FMS is the biggest problem.  Like how it rarely transitions smoothly from FMS to V/L correctly or it gets confused and tunes the opposite end of the runway.  Can't hold, still can't direct to.  Still has limitations on what you can enter for waypoints inside a STAR or SID. RNAVs not really possible unless you V/S the whole time and watch your charts carefully.  The exterior lighting is now better in 0.9.12 exp. Wing flex isn't A330esque anymore.  We got Navigraph charts now, so that's something.

 

Thanks for the info!

8 hours ago, aniiran said:

1. Aircraft pitches up by itself during takeoff roll before reaching V1

This has been the case since day 1.  Make sure you aren't setting TO trim to 10.0.    Something like 3-4 is real world according to that Embraer pilot 737NGdriver had for the E175 review and make sure your using real world wieights in the sim and in the FMC.  That real world pilot explained why the FMC says 10.0 but like the TO/LAND fuel is not actually talking about total fuel. The 10.0 in the FMC is not about what to set the trim to.  My nose does start lifting but that's when I'm already at V1 and Rotate.  

2. Unrealistic pitch with FLCH set to 250 knots resulting in 3000-4000 feet per minute climb rate

I'm not sure if this is unrealistic or not, maybe slightly depending on weight and altitude.  Today, we rocketed out of Houston at an uncomfortable pitch angle.  I guess we had to get away from the parallel take off on the the 15s?  Looking at The flightaware it looks like we were 2,500-3,000 FPM to 5000 feet then 2900-3300 FPM from 6-10k at 230 kts and then we we were over 10k we were doing about 2,000 FPM at 290kts (360kts GS) until FL200 then it was only about 1,200-1,000 FPM. And I'm not sure why but from Houston to San Antonio we shot up to 28,000 ft then back down. Seemed wierd to go that high on a 34 minute flight

3. Aircraft pitch changes too quickly/abruptly following VS changes on autopilot.

This is really annoying.  They know about it.

4.Thrust lever movement is jerky trying to cope with speed changes especially around pitch changes

Haven't really noticed this.  I know in the real airplane as passenger I'm always surprised by how much the throttle goes up and down on final approach.  Sometimes I think we are going around, just to have the throttle cut back to nothing a few moments later and then back at buzzsaw then down to nothing again. Then almost back to Buzzsaw just before landing. I've noticed this on CRJs too.  They both have CF34s so maybe its just the way the engine works.  

5. LNAV - encounterd a single case where the aircraft started banking to no relevant direction

Yeah, I was flying from SFO to BMWorld Monterey CA and just before the SNS (Salinas) VOR the jet just started turning north for no reason and went to a heading of 030 from 140. It's been discussed on the discord for FSS.  The answer is always that they are woking on a custom VNAV system.

There are still too many issues to discuss, just look at their Discord "Known Issues" section. For me the FMS is the biggest problem.  Like how it rarely transitions smoothly from FMS to V/L correctly or it gets confused and tunes the opposite end of the runway.  Can't hold, still can't direct to.  Still has limitations on what you can enter for waypoints inside a STAR or SID. RNAVs not really possible unless you V/S the whole time and watch your charts carefully.  The exterior lighting is now better in 0.9.12 exp. Wing flex isn't A330esque anymore.  We got Navigraph charts now, so that's something.

 

When/if they develop a fully working custom FMC, I'll be buying that. Because not only is a working LNAV a basic minimum of every IFR flight, but the FMC is also probably the most time consuming and complex part of aircraft development. So if they achieve this, it shows they are 1) competent and 2) willing enough to develop this airplane, which is a good indicator that the aircraft might in a couple of years be about study-level.
That said, I'm convinced they will abandon this project before they have a fully working custom FMC (they'll likely release some half-baken stuff and say "here, we promised you a custom FMC, but we didn't promise it to be complete. Most real pilots don't use the FMC anyway!").
If the shameful relase of the E-Jets is not enough, just look at their painfully awful KPHL scenery, which recently released. They have as little shame as they have ambition.

Though I'd be more than happy to be wrong, because I love the E-Jets.

26 minutes ago, Fiorentoni said:

Though I'd be more than happy to be wrong, because I love the E-Jets.

Your post reads as scepticism towards development. Are you still basing it on the initial first flight videos? In my opinion those were unfair reviews and a competition on how hard can we criticise. 

Have a look at: https://www.flightsim-studio.com/ejets-roadmap/

I think the FMC is custom. It is like in a E175. LNAV is available, and suitable for most standard situations. 

I think you will be happy. I'm already enjoying it!

 

ps. KPHL? is that from the same developer?

Edited June 9, 20232 yr by bigifooti

5 minutes ago, bigifooti said:

Your post reads as scepticism towards development. Are you still basing it on the initial first flight videos? In my opinion those were unfair reviews and a competition on how hard can we criticise. 

Have a look at: https://www.flightsim-studio.com/ejets-roadmap/

I think the FMC is custom. It is like in a E175. LNAV is available, and suitable for most standard situations. 

I think you will be happy. I'm already enjoying it!

 

ps. KPHL? is that from the same developer?

Sorry, no, they are using MSFS default LNAV and AP. The FMC might have custom fonts and textures, but lacks 50% of the pages and uses MSFS default logic anyway. There are already two persons on page one of this thread telling you that LNAV fails them in every flight, so I guess you don't notice or care, which is fine, don't get me wrong. Expectations are different for different people.

I am following them on discord, so yes, I know about the state of the aircraft. My scepticism is based on what they perceive as "acceptable", see the E-Jets release or KPHL (yes, it's from them, only available on the marketplace though). Also most of the (many) improvements they've made in the last 5 months are either EFB stuff or small things or cosmetical things. The only thing that's even remotely complex is the custom AT they recently released. From reading their dev's posts on Discord you can easily tell they are industrious but lacking any experience (and partly competence) in airliner development, like all of them. Their main dev (Uruuy or something, don't remember) is basically showing his lack of knowledge about the actual aircraft in every single post, either asking for how it is on the real aircraft or saying "I *believe* it's like this or that". Would you buy a car from someone who literally asks on social media how a car works...?


 

2 hours ago, Fiorentoni said:

Sorry, no, they are using MSFS default LNAV and AP. The FMC might have custom fonts and textures, but lacks 50% of the pages and uses MSFS default logic anyway. There are already two persons on page one of this thread telling you that LNAV fails them in every flight, so I guess you don't notice or care, which is fine, don't get me wrong. Expectations are different for different people.

I am following them on discord, so yes, I know about the state of the aircraft. My scepticism is based on what they perceive as "acceptable", see the E-Jets release or KPHL (yes, it's from them, only available on the marketplace though). Also most of the (many) improvements they've made in the last 5 months are either EFB stuff or small things or cosmetical things. The only thing that's even remotely complex is the custom AT they recently released. From reading their dev's posts on Discord you can easily tell they are industrious but lacking any experience (and partly competence) in airliner development, like all of them. Their main dev (Uruuy or something, don't remember) is basically showing his lack of knowledge about the actual aircraft in every single post, either asking for how it is on the real aircraft or saying "I *believe* it's like this or that". Would you buy a car from someone who literally asks on social media how a car works...?


 

If they fail to produce a custom FMC they won't be the first to promise one and then fail to deliver. Just Flight comes to mind with their rather excellent BA146. If they can get the AutoThrottle, Autopilot, LNAV and VNAV to work together well, I'll be content and I won't be too worried about a faithful reproduction of the real life FMC.

4 hours ago, jarmstro said:

If they fail to produce a custom FMC they won't be the first to promise one and then fail to deliver. Just Flight comes to mind with their rather excellent BA146. If they can get the AutoThrottle, Autopilot, LNAV and VNAV to work together well, I'll be content and I won't be too worried about a faithful reproduction of the real life FMC.

But this is not possible without a custom FMC. To be precise, it's less about the pages on the MCDU, it's about literally the "flight management computer (FMC"), or in other words: a custom flightplan unit and how the flightplan is connected to the LNAV (which needs a custom AP). In consequence VNAV is also not possible without a custom FMC. So we are all waiting on the same thing in the end.