I think most people would prefer to do the launch to orbit and deorbit to landing under autopilot anyway.  A lot of time is spent waiting, coasting with the engines off, during these procedures, which can take an hour or more.  If nothing else you'd need time compression to make these flights acceptable.

I eventually wrote a launch to orbit autopilot but didn't use it for the entire flight to Station 5.

Once my mid-course correction was so accurate I collided with the space station. 😄  Oops.

I like Star Citizen's idea.

Hook

I agree that automated procedures in a game like this are probably best for entering and leaving planetary environments, but I still want a seamless transition. How exactly does Starfield deal with this? Does the screen fade when approaching a planet's atmosphere, and then suddenly you are a few thousand feet above the ground approaching your destination? That would significantly affect the sense of immersion for me, and dent my enthusiasm for the game.

Edited June 16, 20232 yr by Christopher Low

On 6/14/2023 at 7:35 AM, martin-w said:

Can you actually fly through an atmosphere and land, or is it just cut scenes?

Edit: Just leaned you can't, you can only fly your ship in space. Seems they have gone for more of a fun time that simulation. 😡

 

 

So he thinks the developers went this way so it didn't hinder "game" play. He's correct that it's subjective.

Most of the people buying this will be turned on by the "game" aspect and having fun, rather than the realism and simulation. Those who like a title like this to have a semblance of simulation and realism won't be impressed.

It occurs to me though, that if the developers didn't want to impact the "game" aspect, then why not give the player the option? A setting could be included so that both options are available, atmospheric flight or a cut scene. That way they don't lose sales.

I'm thinking that the real reason is that they didn't want to put time, effort and money into coding atmospheric entry, along with the signifcant coding that would require. Thus, it was about money.

 

My take on it is that I want an immersive experience, rather than a game. That being the case, I like things to be as realistic as possible. This is why I would prefer seamless transition from spaceflight to planetary landings. It is also why I like real world physics to be employed when on the ground (this was a really cool feature when Half Life 2 was released). It's a bit like those guys who say that once they have tried VR, they cannot go back to using a flat screen monitor. Similarly, once I experienced the physics engine in Half Life 2, I could not go back to playing first person games with "arcade" physics.

This is one of the reasons why I have only played a handful of games over the past two decades. Another reason is that (IMO) gameplay has not evolved anywhere near as much as graphics and audio effects. I have watched lots of YouTube videos of upcoming games, and many of them are highly anticipated because of their outstanding graphics and expansive virtual worlds.....

.....and then I see the combat sequences (with associated animation and movements), and it takes me back to the early 1990s. That may not be a problem for the vast majority of gamers, but I need a lot more than that.

Piloting a ship from launch to orbit and from orbit to landing, 99% of which is probably automated anyway, is certainly not a deal-breaker for me.  There's probably also an orbital insertion procedure if you really want to get realistic. 

This is a game, not a space flight simulator.

Having said that, I wouldn't mind having the option of going through the launch to orbit and orbit to landing phases.  If they become too tedious, then I could just disable it.

Dave

It's done in Elite Dangerous and done in Star Citizen beta... so no reason why it can't be done in this title.

It's about avoiding the coding, time, effort and expenditure I feel. 

Something that people who aren't developers don't often understand is, it's not about how much you can cram in, it's about how much you can leave out and still get the desired experience.  It may be about how much time and effort is involved, or about keeping an acceptable framerate, or just getting the product out on a deadline and within a budget.  I mean, how long has Star Citizen been in development?

If the program lends itself enough to modding, someone may create a mod to allow launch to orbit and deorbit to normal atmospheric flight.  Modders are less worried about time and effort or budgets and deadlines.  If there's enough demand for it and it is possible, we'll eventually see it.

The reason I loved flying the Orion to and from Station 5 in the World of 2001 mod to Orbiter is that there really weren't a lot of places to go.  I occasionally matched orbits with one of the orbiting nuclear weapons.  I never tried flying to the Moon.  Launching to orbit, matching orbits with the space station, docking with the station, deorbit and landing were about all there was to do in Orbiter.

In Starfield there are a LOT of other places to go, and that's likely to be what is considered important.  How many people, really, want to spend an hour each in planetary launch and landing?  I'd do it because I enjoy it, but there isn't much exploring involved in that, and exploration is apparently what Starfield is about.  That and the various RPG gaming elements.  Maybe some space battle.

Hang in there, wait and see what happens.  And in the mean time, go exploring. 😄

Hook

 

How long does it take to go from orbit to landing in Star Citizen?

21 minutes ago, Christopher Low said:

How long does it take to go from orbit to landing in Star Citizen?

I'd be interested in learning that too.  It probably doesn't require the same kind of maneuver that Orbiter (or the real life Space Shuttle) does.

Also, can you do atmospheric skips in Star Citizen?

Hook

6 hours ago, martin-w said:

It's done in Elite Dangerous and done in Star Citizen beta... so no reason why it can't be done in this title.

It's about avoiding the coding, time, effort and expenditure I feel. 

Maybe also about avoiding the boredom.

In Elite Dangerous, the thing that actually keeps me from playing more often is the thought of the interminable "realistic" wait times as your ship powers through various planetary systems while you read a book or watch TV or daydream, or.....

I'm always a bit bemused by the fact that so many seem to enjoy (I think) making perhaps hundreds of time-consuming, repetitive, and possibly suicidal-thoughts-inducing jumps towards the rim and/or center of the galaxy..... 🚀

Which probably matches up well with people who enjoy hours-long flights around the world in sims, but at least there you have autopilot so you can go walk the dog, or get some sleep or something.....

Different strokes, but for me personally, I can survive without it.

There was a mod for a while in one of the X-series games that placed jump gates in the atmosphere that allowed you simply warp to corresponding orbital jump gates. I could see that being a good compromise.....

Edited June 18, 20232 yr by HiFlyer

53 minutes ago, LHookins said:

I'd be interested in learning that too.  It probably doesn't require the same kind of maneuver that Orbiter (or the real life Space Shuttle) does.....

I cannot believe that it takes more than a few minutes in Star Citizen to get from outside a planet's atmosphere to skimming the surface. I am not bothered about emulating super accurate de-orbit burns like real world spaceflight. I am thinking more about how science fiction movies depict it. The main point is that I want a seamless transition (rather than a cut scene or loading screen).

Edited June 18, 20232 yr by Christopher Low

13 hours ago, Christopher Low said:

I cannot believe that it takes more than a few minutes in Star Citizen to get from outside a planet's atmosphere to skimming the surface. I am not bothered about emulating super accurate de-orbit burns like real world spaceflight. I am thinking more about how science fiction movies depict it. The main point is that I want a seamless transition (rather than a cut scene or loading screen).

 

I don't think it takes long in Star Citizen. Same for reaching orbit. After takeoff, you burn to high altitude and then engage Q Drive