FS2020 to FS2024

[F737MAX 5,737]

25 minutes ago, Krakin said:

And if they said everything all at once, you'd probably get upset at them for having nothing much to say at FSExpo.

Who said they'd have to announce everything at once? They certainly didn't at FSExpo.

No, not speaking to interested groups on a live Q&A session or similar was dumb. It took 13 hours to respond to the most frequently written questions and a further 2 weeks to announce why MSFS2024 is different/bettet/worth buying. In the meantime, spurious gossip put MS on the back foot and left a significant number of simmers still asking whether it's worth upgrading. Terrible marketing on that front.

 

32 minutes ago, Krakin said:

Some of those concerns should have been settled by common sense

What was supposedly common sense? That performance enhancements are coming? Whether MSFS2020 add-ons would still work on the new platform? That flight modelling changes are being included? That scenery and terrain changes are underway? While these are all legitimate features that justify a new platform, you're asking people to mind read all that from the teaser trailer which was focused on 'gamey' (I dislike the term) aspects showcased in the new sim.

[Glenn Fitzpatrick 3,799]

25 minutes ago, F737MAX said:

you're asking people to mind read all that from the teaser trailer which was focused on 'gamey' (I dislike the term) aspects showcased in the new sim.

To be fair it did look like just one of the current virtual pilot addons with bonus cut scenes rather than anything new.

[Paul K 1,365]

5 hours ago, micstatic said:

yeah.  I admit I have some curiosity to try some of the missions.  However I suspect it will end up how I view terminal interiors.  I'll check it out a few times, but then back to flying airliners A to B.  

Precisely my thoughts too. Spot on.

[Ricardo41 5,959]

6 hours ago, F737MAX said:

Yet the decision to release the trailer at Xbox showcase event without engagement with other flight sim groups

There are no "other flight sim groups" that are somehow entitled to "engagement" from Microsoft. Microsoft released the trailer where it felt its main audience is. 

I have no idea what you mean by "core flight simmers"- 

[Dominique_K 10,152]

12 hours ago, micstatic said:

yeah.  I admit I have some curiosity to try some of the missions.  However I suspect it will end up how I view terminal interiors.  I'll check it out a few times, but then back to flying airliners A to B.  

 

6 hours ago, Paul K said:

Precisely my thoughts too. Spot on.

I agree with you if they script arcadish missions.

But lets dream a bit, will you ?

It would be different if 24  offers open missions with some randomization and realism.

Lets take the aerial firefighting as an example as I live in a region prone to forest fires.

I wish for :

- different types of fire from startup smokes to a full blown inferno, progressing fires on ridges or close to human settlements etc.

- randomization of fire locations

- over heated air having an impact on the aircraft flying behavior, realistic ballistic trajectory of water or retardant when dropped from the tanks, realistic water scooping (approach, winds)

Then I might stay forever in missions 😀 

[F737MAX 5,737]

8 hours ago, Ricardo41 said:

There are no "other flight sim groups" that are somehow entitled to "engagement" from Microsoft. Microsoft released the trailer where it felt its main audience is. 

I have no idea what you mean by "core flight simmers"- 

Better ask Jorg Neumann:
https://www.youtube.com/live/P0F5RY9GJvE?feature=share&t=16012

He references "core simmers" throughout the FSExpo keynote speech. He also considers this group to be important: https://www.youtube.com/live/P0F5RY9GJvE?feature=share&t=15741

 

6 hours ago, Dominique_K said:

It would be different if 24  offers open missions with some randomization and realism.
Lets take the aerial firefighting as an example as I live in a region prone to forest fires.

I wish for :

- different types of fire from startup smokes to a full blown inferno, progressing fires on ridges or close to human settlements etc.
- randomization of fire locations
- over heated air having an impact on the aircraft flying behavior, realistic ballistic trajectory of water or retardant when dropped from the tanks, realistic water scooping (approach, winds)

Then I might stay forever in missions 😀

If dynamic missions come to fruition, you won't be the only one spending a lot of time using this 'arcadey' / 'gamey' content.
Other than the integral technical improvements, such as multithreading the program, moving to a thin client and creating 3D from 2D, I look forward to seeing what the missions content brings to party.

[Krakin 5,840]

13 hours ago, F737MAX said:

Who said they'd have to announce everything at once? They certainly didn't at FSExpo.

No, not speaking to interested groups on a live Q&A session or similar was dumb. It took 13 hours to respond to the most frequently written questions and a further 2 weeks to announce why MSFS2024 is different/bettet/worth buying. In the meantime, spurious gossip put MS on the back foot and left a significant number of simmers still asking whether it's worth upgrading. Terrible marketing on that front.

 

What was supposedly common sense? That performance enhancements are coming? Whether MSFS2020 add-ons would still work on the new platform? That flight modelling changes are being included? That scenery and terrain changes are underway? While these are all legitimate features that justify a new platform, you're asking people to mind read all that from the teaser trailer which was focused on 'gamey' (I dislike the term) aspects showcased in the new sim.

No offense but you'd make a terrible marketing executive. Good marketing isn't always about doing things exactly how the consumers would like it to be done. A balance has to be struck. MS didn't owe it to anyone to immediately come out and say this and that. They knew FSExpo was coming up and they wanted to build anticipation for that. Why do you think teaser trailers exist?

As for common sense reactions, everyone should have known that MS was not about to throw out thosands of content in the marketplace just to start things over in 2024. That's throwing money away. I said that day one and it turned out that I was bang on target. 

Thinking a new standalone sim would ONLY have missions would also make no sense if someone took five minutes to observe the last 3 years. The panic and despair we saw, should have given way to a let's wait and see attitude. But flight simmers love going the chicken little route.

[threexgreen 3,156]

13 hours ago, F737MAX said:

What was supposedly common sense? That performance enhancements are coming? Whether MSFS2020 add-ons would still work on the new platform? That flight modelling changes are being included? That scenery and terrain changes are underway? While these are all legitimate features that justify a new platform, you're asking people to mind read all that from the teaser trailer which was focused on 'gamey' (I dislike the term) aspects showcased in the new sim.

I agree with regards to the failed marketing to an extent. It definitely failed to convince many people including the more serious flight simmers, even if it probably was very successful in announcing the sim to the greater public at the Xbox event. But it's also obvious that many of those the trailer failed to reach could use a cup of common sense. The trailer was 1:30-ish showing only few aspects of the whole picture and MS was never going to release something with no improvements or even dumb it down to some weird arcade game for reasons. The things people concluded based on that one, short trailer, talking about betrayal and generally running around with their hair on fire, were insane.

[F737MAX 5,737]

1 hour ago, Krakin said:

No offense but you'd make a terrible marketing executive.

Based on what? You're pretty sure of yourself on these forums.

 

1 hour ago, Krakin said:

A balance has to be struck

And they didn't strike it, IMO.
My take on what could've been done instead:

https://forums.flightsimulator.com/t/microsoft-flight-simulator-2024-announced/596064/2460?u=f737ng

Read it, or don't.

 

56 minutes ago, threegreen said:

The things people concluded based on that one, short trailer, talking about betrayal and generally running around with their hair on fire, were insane.

Completely agree, too many people lost their word not allowed over whether there would be dumbing down, gamification of the new sim.
Unfortunately, the current Zeitgeist is that everything is binary. The thinking goes: Only what is displayed, actually is. if something isn't explained / described / shown, then it doesn't exist.
Then people resort to their favourite pitchfork, as per usual.

A decent marketing team (especially in the gaming world) should know this. So as I said elsewhere, it could've and should've been handled better.
 

Edited July 9, 2023 by F737MAX

[Dominique_K 10,152]

 

27 minutes ago, F737MAX said:

 , I look forward to seeing what the missions content brings to party.

Me too.

If they do them right, they could a significant step in the evolution of flight simming. There will obviously be some gamey bling but will there be more ? Some depth, what I would call 'flying with a purpose' (other than leisure flying or airliner). Another question is, will the framework allow 3rd party contents of this kind. I'd love to see a 2023 🦆 (a joke for old timers)! 

From the beginning, I have said that this game is bound, on the long run, to be a mission training software (thinking then of the institutional market not the entertainment).  Good aircraft, rather good ground scenery (including mesh)  are here. What is needed now is a 'study level' 😉 mission writing framework.

[threexgreen 3,156]

11 minutes ago, F737MAX said:

Unfortunately, the current Zeitgeist is that everything is binary. The thinking goes: Only what is displayed, actually is. if something isn't explained / described / shown, then it doesn't exist.
Then people resort to their favourite pitchfork, as per usual.

Spot on.

[Ricardo41 5,959]

21 hours ago, Krakin said:

I don't think the world map is going away. That would cause a riot.

The World Map is a useless and clunky performance hog. Nothing there that you couldn't do from a simple menu: pick time, departure, arrival, weather, plane, done. 

The best thing for MSFS would be if Microsoft decided to buy up Navigraph and integrate charts and simbrief functionality directly into the sim. 

[Glenn Fitzpatrick 3,799]

5 hours ago, Ricardo41 said:

Nothing there that you couldn't do from a simple menu: pick time, departure, arrival, weather, plane, done. 

Not entirely true.   Sometimes you may want to pick a destination in a location/country where you are unaware what airports exist, for example you want to land somewhere in the Venezuela Andes in a Kodiak but have no idea what airports exist in that region .  The world map allows you to pick and choose without actually looking up the ICAO and runway details of everything in the region you are going to.

[Tuskin38 6,635]

I wish the world map had a political map mode. Borders are helpful in finding some places IMO

[UrgentSiesta 942]

19 hours ago, Dominique_K said:

 

I agree with you if they script arcadish missions.

But lets dream a bit, will you ?

It would be different if 24  offers open missions with some randomization and realism.

Lets take the aerial firefighting as an example as I live in a region prone to forest fires.

I wish for :

- different types of fire from startup smokes to a full blown inferno, progressing fires on ridges or close to human settlements etc.

- randomization of fire locations

- over heated air having an impact on the aircraft flying behavior, realistic ballistic trajectory of water or retardant when dropped from the tanks, realistic water scooping (approach, winds)

Then I might stay forever in missions 😀 

The main thing that caught my ear on this is that they're actively engaged with professional organizations that perform these services in the real world. That means they intend to make these missions reality-based rather than just "screenwriting" stuff that they imagine is somewhat realistic.

We'll see how far it goes, but if they can come up with some type of Campaign system with branching progressions, etc., it'd be great.

Ironically, it's exactly these types of scenarios that Lockheed Martin are using P3D to help support IRL wild fire response...